Wedding cakes

Is there a rule of thumb when pricing an average 3 tier wedding cake with simple decorations? Do you go by the number of people?

By W.DeBord on Friday, November 05, 1999 - 09:24 am: Edit

Either the last issue or the one before of Pastry Art and design covered pricing and did mention breifly wedding cakes. They noted differences in price based on where in the U.S. you live. Both coasts got more $ than the mid-west.

I'm in the mid-west and price according to size and difficulty. Number of servings can vary depending on whether it will be the dessert. Unforunately it is a guessing game. A simple cake I ask around $4.50, per-person. I've done ones with all hand made edible flowers where $7.00 a person wouldn't be near enough. How experienced you are plays a role in your precieved value.

You can add up your hours mulitply by your salary, add costs and a reasonable profit.

By Ramodeo (Ramodeo) on Friday, November 05, 1999 - 08:25 pm: Edit

I do wedding cakes only as a part of a full dinner-reception banquet package at our restaurant/banquet facility. We charge $3.75 per serving (small slice: 1" x 2-1/2" x 2 layers). If someone wants a larger slice, like a regular size dessert serving, we charge $6.95, which is our standard dessert price in the restaurant. I'm also in the mid-west, which definitely limits the price, I feel.
I keep my time at a minimum by offering only a limited style of cake, with a rolled white chocolate coating that requires very little piped decoration. The price does not include flower decorations, cuz I don't like doing those :), so the client usually provides fresh flowers to decorate with. I sometimes do ribbons and garlands out of the white chocolate coating, for which we charge an additional $25 to $50 per tier.
One way we keep labor costs down is to use a mix cake, with added eggs, oil, flavoring and/or liqueur to enrich it. People swear it's the best made from scratch cake they ever had. I just smile and keep my mouth shut!

By W.DeBord on Saturday, November 06, 1999 - 07:32 am: Edit

Ramodeo where were you when I needed you???! On another tread it was me against everyone else who said mixes were garbage. I use mixes all the time. Everyone told me mixes didn't compare to scratch cakes and I was "cheating my customers". I kept telling them that I do taste tests and time after time the customer chooses the mix cake!

Do you use a buttercream frosting with shortening in it??? On another tread I mentioned this and sparks flew off peoples fingers typing their opinions on "crisco cream".

Are we mid-westerners sooooo different in our tastes??? Or were the other pastry chefs being opinionated to something they haven't tasted?

By Ramodeo (Ramodeo) on Saturday, November 06, 1999 - 10:26 pm: Edit

Sorry I couldn't have been there for ya! We use the mix cakes for the same reason - people like them better.
I think mix cakes are the standard most people grew up with, so they prefer them. That doesn't mean I won't keep trying to educate people on the subtleties of a made from scratch cake. I personally don't care for the aroma or taste of the flavorings in mix cakes, but that is precisely what draws the other employees when I bake them. cupcakes for them out of the batch of batter! I think it's one of those aroma-triggered memories that gets them salivating....

I had been a holdout against "criso cream" frostings for a long time, sticking with those fancy buttercreams from the Cake Bible. But just this week I had to get way too many sheet cakes made. I had to have an easier buttercream. I found a recipe in Practical Baking that was half butter and half shortening (+ 10x sugar, egg whites & water). It took me all of about 10 minutes to throw together and with real vanilla and lemon extract it tasted pretty good, even to me. It's very stable, smoothes and pipes like a dream and so far, everyone likes it and some people love it. I'll find out what all the clients thought next week.

I think we always have to find the right product for each situation. There really is no point in selling people something that they can't appreciate the value of. Then you end up with a customer who doesn't feel they got their money's worth, and that's not a repeat customer.

By Ramodeo (Ramodeo) on Saturday, November 06, 1999 - 10:26 pm: Edit

Sorry I couldn't have been there for ya! We use the mix cakes for the same reason - people like them better.
I think mix cakes are the standard most people grew up with, so they prefer them. That doesn't mean I won't keep trying to educate people on the subtleties of a made from scratch cake. I personally don't care for the aroma or taste of the flavorings in mix cakes, but that is precisely what draws the other employees when I bake them. cupcakes for them out of the batch of batter! I think it's one of those aroma-triggered memories that gets them salivating....

I had been a holdout against "criso cream" frostings for a long time, sticking with those fancy buttercreams from the Cake Bible. But just this week I had to get way too many sheet cakes made. I had to have an easier buttercream. I found a recipe in Practical Baking that was half butter and half shortening (+ 10x sugar, egg whites & water). It took me all of about 10 minutes to throw together and with real vanilla and lemon extract it tasted pretty good, even to me. It's very stable, smoothes and pipes like a dream and so far, everyone likes it and some people love it. I'll find out what all the clients thought next week.

I think we always have to find the right product for each situation. There really is no point in selling people something that they can't appreciate the value of. Then you end up with a customer who doesn't feel they got their money's worth, and that's not a repeat customer.

By W.DeBord on Sunday, November 07, 1999 - 09:07 am: Edit

When I make cakes with traditional butter cream customers say it's too rich or too buttery for their taste. Maybe it's just a mid-west thing? I work in a private club only upper income people who travel and eat at the best places and they choose it too. Go figure?.

As to cake mixes have you looked at any Duncan Heinz cookbooks, some of the variations they do with their mixes are very good!

I was curious when you mentioned you do a rolled white chocolate coating what is that like? I sell alot of wedding cakes with rolled fondant, which doesn't really add flavor. A rolled white chocolate fondant sounds like an excellent idea. Would you share more details??

By Morgane on Sunday, November 07, 1999 - 12:18 pm: Edit

W,


I am curious about those variations from a maix that youmention. Could you please give me a example?


Thanks


Morgane


P.S. Youc an always lighten up the buttercream with Italian meringue.

By Ramodeo (Ramodeo) on Sunday, November 07, 1999 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Rolled white chocolate is something I got from a Bon Appetit years ago in one of their June wedding cake features. It goes: 3# 5oz white chocolate, melted, cooled slightly, stir in 2 cups corn syrup just until well blended. Let stand at room temp several hours or overnight. When ready to use, knead on a 10x sugared board til smooth and roll to 1/8" or so. I made this size batch this week and used less than 1/2 of it to cover a 12" & 8" heart.
The easiest way to cover a cake is by using a round for the top and a band for the sides, then covering the seam with piped pearls or shells. I have draped beveled cakes, like fondant, but this stuff can be hard to smooth out. I form it over the back of a bowl first. When kneading and shaping it helps to warm it a little in the microwave on low, especially in cold weather.
The only time I had trouble with this was when I was throwing it together in a hurry. When I went to knead it I had lots of lumps of cocoa butter, I think. It separated in the mixing process, and ended up unusable. I have also found that a high quality white choc is necessary.
The greatest thing about this stuff is that it really protects the cake. It keeps it fresh and is great for transporting - I add any piped decorations after arriving. It's like aninsurance policy!

By W.DeBord on Monday, November 08, 1999 - 07:44 am: Edit

Here's a few Morgane:

Coconut Cake
1 pkg yellow cake mix, 1 pkg(4oz.)instant vanilla pudding, 1 1/3c. h2o, 4 eggs, 1/4 c. oil, 2 c. coconut, 1 c. chopped nuts.

Banana Sour Cream Cake
1 yellow cake mix, 1/2 c. sour cream, 2 extra ripe bananas, 1/2 c. milk, 1/4 c. oil, 2 eggs.

Old Fashioned Apple Raisin Bundt Cake
1 butter recipe cake mix, 3 eggs. 1/4 c. softened butter, 1/4 c. h2o, 3/4 c. applesauce, 1/3 c. br. sugar, 1 tsp. pumpkin pie spice, 1/2 c. raisins.

I have found alot of these types of recipes thru Pillsbury cookbooks. I always use Duncan Heinz Brand cake mixes and Jello Brand INSTANT puddings.

The unique aspect of some of these recipes is how they remain after refridgerating. A scratch banana cake becomes heavier almost banana bread like in color and density. These cakes made with mixes remain lighter, retain more of a fresh oven consistancy than scratch and hold longer than scratch.

By Morgane on Monday, November 08, 1999 - 10:53 am: Edit

W,

I am curious about the texture of those cakes. You say the banana cake will stay light. Will they be as soft as if you only followed the directions on the box?

What I don't like about box cake is thatthey don't have any texture and denseness(sorry it is the best word I can find in english) so I am trying to understand the results you would get.


Thanks!


Morgane

By W.DeBord on Monday, November 08, 1999 - 02:59 pm: Edit

My banana cake above stays light in the respect that it is not like scratch banana cake. Which can very closely resemble banana bread once it's been refridgerated. It stays moist and light as though you baked it earlier in the day. It does have a moist density but it's not banana bread heavy. It has a heavy moist crumb. It depends upon what you want sometimes I make the mix version sometimes I make it from scratch.

You really have to try it to believe what I'm saying.

By W.DeBord on Monday, November 08, 1999 - 03:22 pm: Edit

I'm not sure I answered your whole question...There is a LARGE difference in the finished product between following the directions on the box and what I saying about embellishing on a cake mix. Your adding flavor, moisture and interest into the cake.
I know some of the things I say go against what the majority of pastry chefs do and like. I do not like scratch cakes THAT require me to brush on liquior or liquid (*with a few exceptions). To me it's like trying to correct a problem instead of avoiding the problem (of a dry sponge, geniose etc...). I don't like a liquior taste and the "syrup" your adding doesn't go far enough to add moisture and flavor. I know MY tastes are the opposite of many pastry chefs, to the old world chefs I'm insane and I don't know how to bake.

My thoughts are if I won't eat the cake PLAIN by itself it's not a component I want. I do make most of my cakes from scratch - and some of them from a mix.

By Morgane on Monday, November 08, 1999 - 10:34 pm: Edit

W,


Thanks for the suggestions. One day I will have to try that just to see the taste and texture of it. I'll let you know.


Morgane

By canada guy on Tuesday, February 15, 2000 - 11:26 pm: Edit

you have to ask what you want simple buttercream or rolled fondant!!!!!

lots of labour of quick to make