Archive through September 14, 2001

We're all mad as hell, but a war will make a lot of innocent people, including our own soldiers , suffer. Don't yell at me....No, I don't have any answers at all...

By catergreat on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 07:41 pm: Edit

I would gladly lay down my life in the fight for freedom as have my ancestors before me....

Problem is, Vietnam tarnished our faith in that fight.... I understand why you have these reservations TMarta.... I was raised be a Marine, bear with me...

Carl

By Saddened on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 08:02 pm: Edit

Unfortunately I have to agree with the concept that the host countries that don't cooperate and the family members of the terrorists have to be eradicated also. The reality is that any family members, especially children that are left will just hate us all the more than they already do and will continue to attack us.

On another track its terrible that they bastardize a religion like Islam to get their own goals but that's all it is. They have nothing to do with the actual teaching of the faith. It's just as much about Islam as the Spanish inquisition was about Catholicism.

Ahh, where have all the tactical nukes gone when you need them.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 08:23 pm: Edit

I wonder if the rest of the country is as mad as we are? I thought I was the minority in my feelings!!! I hope this feeling doesn't change because I'm afraid it will just make us lax once again. This has to be nipped in the bud now or we'll have this happening every other week, month...holiday???
Bombing would be most efficient but, slow torture more gratifying.
God Bless and forgive us all.

By Yankee on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I really think we brought much of what happend yesterday upon ourselves.

We are a superpower with no power. We have the capability to do so much good around the world (and we have, and still do) yet we spend trillions on Star Wars fallacies, and so little on taking care of ourselves and our society. Trillions for a stupid $300 check, yet we hang our ass out into the wind for anyone to spank. Fifty million for a stupid web site, a few thousand for our teachers, and 10 bucks an hour for the guy at the security gate at the airport.

Isolationism and selfishness. Our dependency upon oil. Gutless leaders. While he not be my favorite, I think old Pappy Bush needs to get behind the wheel. W's never been shot at by someone who views death as honor, what the the f**k does he know?

My father was almost vaporized on Greewich Street yesterday. I can't even begin to imagine the horror of trying to find a lost loved one, or knowing that they were on one of those planes.

A few people stood up for themselves on flight #93 yesterday, perhaps now the rest of us will wake up and do the same.

People around the world hate us, but I remember the faint but sincere thank you from my friends in Europe when we finally got off our ass in Bosnia. There is more good than evil in the world, and we should not fear taking a few people out to keep it that way.

Peace.

By Chezhoo (Chezhoo) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 01:53 pm: Edit

I'm wearing my black trimmed whites today in remembrance of our culinary brothers and sisters who worked at the Trade Center and who's only crime was to burn the occassional steak and maybe serve cold food once in a while. We need to keep our focus on this one and we need to stand up as citizens and hold our own elected officials feet to the fire and not allow them to waiver. If you don't want to give blood (or can't as in my case)how about forking over that government rebate check to the relief effort? Five years from now as we're still mired in our "war against terrorism" remember all of the brave words and chest beating said these past few days. I have a sick feeling that our politicians and state department are gonna equivicate their way out of doing anything trully devastating and appropriate. At this point I think using a few tactical nuclear weapons in God-forsaken areas like Afganistan, Libya and Iraq is just about the right level of appropriatness.

By Peachcreek (Peachcreek) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 05:30 pm: Edit

How does one go about winning a "War about Nothing"? It isn't about territory, or resources, or persecution, its about a concept. And beliefs held by a tiny minority of people. For this we will make Afganis or Libyans or Iraqis an endangered species? What do we need? 10 dead innocent foreigners for every dead American? 100? 1000?
In our world today there are enough resources, energy and money for everyone. Call me simple.
But there has to be a better way.
Murder is murder, whether it is sanctioned by a government or not. I will have no part of it.
My condolences to the victims, my prayers to the living.

By Panini (Panini) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 05:35 pm: Edit

I absolutely will not fork over one red cent to this government!!!! What has all the billions for defense done? They flew a G D jet liner into the pentagon!!!! Itemize the budget and I'll give. To many Fat Cats.
I'll give money to who ever needs it, as long as every dollar goes to the needs. Selfish? Yes.
Angry with politics? yes. I can't get rid of the hole in my stomach when I think of Windows. I come from a family of NY restauranteurs, firefighters, transit, and police officers. The brotherhood will survive this one but not to many more. You cure cancer with surgery. Forget my rant, I'm tired, mad, sad, scared, sorry.

By Yankee on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Oh, please. I understand your anger, but to drop a nuke in the middle East would mean the end of the world. Get out a map and put a red star on all those countries with nukes, or the ability to launch chemical weapons. Now, think about the mentality of each of those countries and what little disregard they have for the rest of the world.

The countries that habor these people are poor nations that look to rich nations for money. The world bank could dry up anyone as fast as any nuke. Pakastan needs money, more than it needs to help Bin Laden or his like. Check out Afganistan on a map and read about how much fun the Russians had there not too long ago. It's not a place you want to be. Once the body bags start coming home, you have to ask yourself how much of a stomach our leaders will have to sustain anything. Is W just going to sit there and cry like he did today? Is he the Neville Chamberlin of our time? Frankly, I'm glad Powell and Cheney have the keys to the family car.

The aggression in Bosnia came to a grinding halt when we finally figured out how to shut down Milo's cash. The bombing could have gone on much longer, he didn't give a rat's ass about his people. We are facing much the same problem. We are seen as the great Satan, and to die in any action against us is the highest honor. There is a string of people out there who do nothing more with their lives than plot against the U.S..

What do we do? We twiddle around and play with ourselves and waste trillions on $300 checks because our crappy portfolio of hollow internet stocks are now worthless. We forget about the rest of the world unless it effects the price of gas for our SUV's. People won't put up with extra security at airports because it slows them down. The media is full of People magazine ••••, and so little substance. We just laugh at Jay Leno and his Jaywalking skit. We just laugh at our stupidity and just keep on walking. Look at the people we idolize. I met a guy the other day who had a $15K plasma screen TV put in his bathroom so he could watch sports while on the can. Meanwhile, have you looked at the textbooks at your local public school lately? Look at all these idiots who have come out of the woodwork to threaten any muslim they see, or call in fake bomb threats.

Ignorance and fear.

Sorry for the rant. I just think it's going to get much, much worse before it gets any better.

By George (George) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 10:19 pm: Edit

I found these interesting thoughts from a list I'm, on- 1 of 2


Let's just hope and pray we DID elect the right man to handle this situation with caution and consideration of the out come, for what ever action is taken.


it's kind of grim to know this, but the plans for a US response were all worked out years ago.

during peacetime, the military makes plans.. because if there's anything an army dislikes it's being surprised. experts at the pentagon run what-if sessions, and try to imagine as many ways to create chaos as they can. then they look for ways to prevent that disaster from happening, and decide how to respond if it does happen. they work out all the contingencies and angles, then write it all up, give it a scenario number, and file it away with all the other plans for destroying the nation.

the plans regarding the world trade center are fresh indeed, since the building was attacked only a few years ago. i know people who live in the area, and they've mentioned how well organized all the emergency handling has been, because all the emergency services were acting out plans that were made last time.

nobody in the world has devoted more serious head-time to thinking about ways to wipe out the US than the US military has. the powers that be worked out the general outlines of a response long ago, and while people on one side of the pentagon were putting out fires, someone down in a basement was pulling out the relevant scenario folder.

the US will move with deliberation along the plan most applicable to this scenario, taking both the domestic and foreign political climates into account.

one thing the military will not do is start shooting in anger.
that's what the attack was meant to provoke. the whole terrorist rap is that the US wages a war of aggression on [insert civilian population here] by being allied with someone the terrorist wants to kill. that makes them feel better about killing civilians themselves.

of course, that's solid, hard-packed bullshit.. unless the US starts killing civilians in retaliation. then it becomes a valid statement of realpolitik, albeit in a round-about way.

the US doesn't win by killing decent, everyday people, regardless of where those people happen to live. we don't win by letting terrorists use those people as a human shield either, though. so when the US does get hit hard, it doesn't just start swinging randomly. it will ruthlessly and clinically work out a response that will best serve our military and political goals, then it will enact that response with as little collateral damage as it can manage.


one thing i do know: that CNN footage of Palestinian citizens dancing in the streets ain't gonna do the Palestinian government *any* good diplomatically.

By George (George) on Thursday, September 13, 2001 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Interesting post from another source
2 of 2

As a Special Forces soldier in the British Army, I lived in an Arab country for two years(1965-67) during which I fought an anti-terrorist/insurgency war on behalf of the corrupt local government, because that's who best served British interests. My job was simple; intelligent identified the insurgents; I (and my team) killed them. We did it selectively and with surgical precision. So I do have a fairly deep insight into the region and the West's involvement in it.

To date I have kept quiet throughout this discussion. I understand the feelings of horror, revenge and, unfortunately, hate that you have.

Unfortunately, the West's history in the region has been one of domination and exploitation. When peoples' aspirations are not being met, when their voices are not being heard, when all that is left is desperation - this is what drives them to support the extremists. The US's support for Israel's blatant breaking of the peace accords at every step of the way simply reinforces the belief throughout the Islamic world. The West's support of a decadent, exploitative regime in Kuwait in '91 was seen throughout the Arab world as yet another intervention to protect the wealth and interests of the US and its Allies. For those not aware, Kuwait was created by the British in 1922 to deprive Iraq of a seaport - Basra by then being far up the River Euphrates.

The post quoted below is, I sincerely hope, indicative of the attitude of many Americans, although clearly not the majority. The cries for revenge at any cost have sent disturbing ripples throughout the rest of the world. But it will not stop the terrorism. That will only stop when the fundamental issues that drive people to the extremists' camps are addressed. The West must start to share some of its massive wealth with the have-nots of the world. It must start to listen to their needs and their aspirations. It must cease trampling them underfoot simply because it can do so. Because that will only perpetuate the violence.

Am I saying the US must not retaliate? Absolutely not. Indeed, you must. But you must do it as the British and the Israelis have done it for more than 40 years now. With efficiency. With precision. And without (where possible) the shedding of innocent lives. Identify the guilty. Find where they are. And them kill them. And their supporters, their shelterers, their suppliers.

But then (as the leader of the Free World) the US must start to address some of the fundamental issues of inequity throughout the world. You, and the rest of the West, must learn to listen. And to share your enormous wealth. For if you don't, it will only be a matter of time before this terrible tragedy happens again. Believe me, the rest of the world knows this only too well; we've lived with terrorism for the best part of 50 years. Until now, the US has largely escaped the terrorist scourge. But clearly, not any more.

Only concerted action by the First World nations to address the fundamental inequities in the world will put an end to terrorism forever.

This is my last and only word on the subject. And if anyone wants to call me a coward, I'd suggest that I'm probably the only one on the list that has first hand experience of war. That has killed. That has lived in the Arab world. But if you really want to persist, I come to the US regularly and will be happy to look you up and prove otherwise.

By winzerman on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 12:00 am: Edit

I don't think the present government has the kind of imagination and insight to see through to the truth in what you say. There will be a war and the terrorists will suffer, but the people in power in this country today will not give a red cent to anyone except themselves and you would be a fool to think otherwise. Pres.GWB has little concern for the poor and destitute. He probably figures thier that way cause they want to be that way who knows. But you can rest assured he's going to make a profit on what ever he decides to do.

By Panini (Panini) on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 07:38 am: Edit

I'm not to sure I agree with that. We throw monies at every Tom, Dick and Harry. I've almost come 180 on this issue. I'm not sure we can exterminate terrorism. Maybe we need to huncker down and start protecting what we have right here. Armed guards at airports etc. Revoke all questionable passports, NOW!!!!
Anyone who uses his right to free speech and talks trash about the US. GONE!!!!! Revoke all questionable student visa's. Let's stop educating our enemies.

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 11:19 am: Edit

Quote, "Anyone who uses his right to free speech and talks trash about the US. GONE!!!!! "

That is exactly the kind reaction this attack or any terrorism was supposed to elicit.

By chady2k on Friday, September 14, 2001 - 12:53 pm: Edit

I must diasagree with the statement "let's just hope and pray that we DID elect the right man" As I remember the popular vote did not elect W. I know that I did not vote for W. I did not believe that he could be a strong leader for our great country then and I know it for sure now. A leader is what this country needs right now! There is far too many people here right now that do not trust the government to make the right decisions... this may well divide our own, and that is what concerns myself.