The Great Hall
hello... new here. The Great Hall: hello... new here.
By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 03:51 pm: Edit

hi there.

new here.

i like cooking and found this place because i was searching for chef's forums on google. and this seems to be the most active that i have come across.

i dont work in the industry any more but still like to cook alot at home and want to further my skills.




By Chefrev (Chefrev) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 06:11 pm: Edit


Welcome, hope you enjoy our little corner of the web. We like it.


By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 07:28 pm: Edit

Hey Ben, welcome, bring a sense of humor though!

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 05:29 am: Edit

er... ok... shall do ;)

how about this>>

- two cannibals are eating a clown, one says to the other 'this tastes a bit funny!'
(i'll get my coat)

anyway, i am new to baking and wanted some tips on how to make decent bread. my first attempts have been very stodgy and very heavy.. not like the fresh bread i want to achieve anyway. also the edges are very thick and too crunchy for my liking. yes i would like it to be crusty but i dont think i have ever eaten bread as crap as mine. can anyone point me in the direction of some tips for getting started?
i am thinking i am not kneading it for long enough.. but tha last batch i did i kneaded for about ten minutes. the base of the bread was also very very hard as was the outside of the entire roll for that matter.
which forum can i ask this question in?

thanks in advance. :) :)

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 06:35 am: Edit

i have been thinking about my bread making and have come to the conclusion that the edges are very hard and too crusrty due too the fact that my oven is too hot and i should turn it down and cook the bread more slowly and for a little longer.. does this sound right.

also the base of the bread is even harder than the rest of it. i have since read that i may be burning the yeast on the base during the proving of the bread... hmmm... possibly...

what is an ideal temperature to prove bread dough?

lots and lots of questions. ha!

am i posting this in the right forum? apologies of not.


By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:48 am: Edit

there's a bakers dozen forum around here somewhere...

welcome to the board... get ready for a change that's coming as the forums will be moving to a new loaction... sometime in the

nice joke btw... :D

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:23 am: Edit

i cant add posts to the bakers forum. i appear not to have enough permissions on my account to do so.

ok then admin peeps>> surely you must know by now that i am not here to flame your board and abuse people..

can you let me in the other forums now??


By George (George) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Strange, if you can post here you should be able to post there. What type of error do you get?

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Okay, Jonesy,
You may be proofing too hot (should be about 90-95 degrees) and you may be putting the bread in a too hot oven. If you know that your recipe is good, try misting it with water when you first put it in the oven (What kind of oven are you using?)
The mist keeps it from drying out too quickly (I tell my students to mist 3 times in the first 10 minutes of cooking.)


By Chefrev (Chefrev) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 06:54 pm: Edit

What ladycake said PLUS, possibly you're not proofing long enuf. Depending on conditions, and type of bread you may need from 1/2 hour to and 1 hour.

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 07:39 pm: Edit

thanks for the tips... i shall report back with my results :)

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:00 pm: Edit


this is the message i get when i try and post in the bakers dozen forum:

'Authentication Error
Your username/password combination was invalid, or you do not have permission to post to this topic. You may revise your username and password using the form at the bottom of this page.'

By Jonesg (Jonesg) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 12:37 pm: Edit

I'm frum Manchester meself but living in the US now, your bread probably requires a complete rethinking.

Get commercial yeast, a good high gluten or strong bread flour too, I consider those important but probably not completely essential.
I don't do dry yeast so can't help there if you can't get the fresh cake yeast.

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 06:02 pm: Edit

i am using dried yeast... i will use some proper yeast.. my local asda gives it away free!! (walmart group) how nice of them.

yes! you are not wrong there. 'complete re-thinking'!! sounds like a plan.

i myself frequent manchester on a regular basis. :) :)

By Jap1148 (Jap1148) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Hi all- I'm new here too-but reading your post in regard to bread baking prompted me to reply. I've been baking bread for a number of years- I find that I get the best crust from a stoneware pan. Too hot of an oven will result in a tough crust as will a dark pan-and it may burn easier. My suggestion is to buy a good bread book-one that explains theory behind baking and how all things affect your final product. Then trial and error-baking bread takes some getting used to but once you master it-it's a joy. Good luck to you

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 06:17 pm: Edit

thanks... a book seems like a good idea...

anyone know any good bread making books?

and who is that really famous master baker type guy from italy?.. saw him on tv once but have forgotten who he is..

By Corey (Corey) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 10:35 pm: Edit

Professional Baking by Wayne Gisslen.
I had classes in school with this book under a german chef, lots of baking science and stuff. this guy had us breeding our own yeast so we could see the many types of breads and stuff we could make. gave me headaches, but I learned a lot.

By Jonesg (Jonesg) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 03:10 am: Edit

Baking is a trade, a hand skill .
knowledge from books , unfortunately, doesn't make up for lack of 'hands on experience.'

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 09:47 am: Edit


can i proof my bread in an oven on the temp that you suggest above? but with the door open?

i cant achieve those sorts of temps anywhere else in the house.


By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

excellent!! i have done it.

i proofed the bread in the oven on the lowest temp and with the door half open... it took about 40 mins and it doubled in size!

i then turned the oven down when i baked it. the edges are not hard and feels nice and light and it smells realy good too!!

i used the recipe on the back of the bread bag... it was for itialian 'Fougasse' bread.

the two factors that i changed this time have made my bread work this time.

easy peasy :)

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 02:19 pm: Edit

just had a slice and i would not unhappy if i bought it from a bakers shop :)

happy now.

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Jonesy :-)

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Your method will work and if you need to use the oven, try putting your bread on top (well insulated by several layers of pan pads) and put a large lexan over the top of it. This worked when my proofer broke down.

Another book that is quite good is the new CIA "Baking and Pastry" I like it better than Gisslen which is what I teach from.

I'm glad your bread turned out!


By Jonesg (Jonesg) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 04:47 pm: Edit

Sorry to hear you keep ending up in M/C, anyway, in regard to the best baker in the world, you've probably never heard of them.
Go to Paris and pick any of the boutique pastry shops.

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 05:27 am: Edit


i know i have never heard of them. that is why i am asking who they are??

i dont understand why you say go to paris...

i only want to get books on them.

By Jonesb (Jonesb) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 08:50 am: Edit


ahh i see. do i detect a little sarcasm in your post to me?

a little slow on the uptake i am afraid.


By Jonesg (Jonesg) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 05:25 am: Edit

The best guys I worked with didn't write anything, they're a different breed altogether from the publicity types. I inherited a lot of expensive pastry books, none of them are as good as the guys I worked with over the years.

I apprenticed with this guy from Paris 25 yrs ago, he no longer does much baking, but he told me the guys who taught him had skills which are no longer seen.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 09:56 pm: Edit

Jonesq, are you answering your own posts?????
Confused, some skills are not needed because they are not valued (nobody wants to pay for them) or some better ones have come along.
Granted, today's Chefs and Pastry Chefs are not anything close to the old days, some are, but not too many!!!!
They want to be Pastry Chefs with mixes coming out of a box!

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