The Great Hall
Hell's Kitchen.....Gunna Watch?? The Great Hall: Hell's Kitchen.....Gunna Watch??
By Chefgibz0 (Chefgibz0) on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 09:02 am: Edit

Just saw an ad on Fox for a new culinary reality show with Englands Gordon Ramsey. I have not heard much in the way of Ramsey before this but to me the show seems to dramatize the bullish attitude of the UK Chef. Looks to me as though they are trying to capitalize on the drama played out in "The Restaurant". Any thoughts??

By Coolbanana (Coolbanana) on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 11:40 am: Edit

Gordon Ramsey.................. Pretty Darn good chef from what I've seen, read, and heard. He started out as a pro soccer player, got injured or something. Went to H/R School. He worked under Albert Roux. His first Restaurant Aubergine(sp?) received two Michelin's. I watched a "chef school" show on BBC that had him pick an appretice from Le Cordon Bleu in London, 1st canidate was a prima donna kid, who wowed everyone at the Cordon Bleu and had tons of background experience, including "running his own kitchen". Second kid, had very little experience, but pretty good determination, and the third kid had a pretty good background. In the interview process, Ramsey chewed up and spit out the wunderkid, and said he would never hire a kid with that attitude! I laughed my arse off! He ended up picking the second kid, and said he could work with that kind of cook. From what I saw, he is brutally honest, and cares more for the flavor of foods, than the "eye appeal". If FOX doesn't filter it out, it could be quite good.
But I imagine there will be quite a few bleeps between the "bloody's". In recent years he has turned his restaurants into somewhat of a corporate group. However, most of the "Gordon Ramsey's" still manage to get at least one Michelin star.

By Tamsin (Tamsin) on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 10:48 pm: Edit

Ramsey has done two relality shows. The first one (I think called ramsey's kitchen) was all about his restuarant, they put cameras in his kitchen and everything, it was a really good watch, often all the chefs in the kitchen I was working in would race home to go and watch it. There was heaps of swearing and alot of people fired.
The second one that he has done, which I think is the one that they will probably put on in America is were he goes and "helps out" a restuarant. These restuarants are about to go to the wall, the chefs (if you could call them that) are really really bad, and so he goes in and trys to get them to change their ways so that they can make a profit. It's a good watch, and rather entertaining. ALOT better than The Restuarant, watching Rocco swan around kissing all the girls gets a bit much after awhile.

Ramsey is totally honest, doesn't really care what other people think, and knows his stuff. I would definately watch it if I was you as it is entertaining.

By Chefgibz0 (Chefgibz0) on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 10:10 am: Edit

The only time I did see Ramsey I was watching some out of the way cooking show and he was trying to teach a home cook how to put on a nice dinner party for a few friends. Well the home cook was a pompous a$$ and would not listen to a thing Ramsey was telling him. I am going to watch, Hell's Kitchen, as The Restaurant to me was just a farce. No substance of what a restaurant is really about. I just hope that they do not over sensationalize things too much.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 08:46 am: Edit

Since American Idol is over now, I guess the wife will let me watch!!!!!!!

By Tamsin (Tamsin) on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 06:53 am: Edit

Hey nothing wrong with American Idol, except the wrong person won!

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:53 pm: Edit

wow!! Chef Ramsey is a monster!! I love him!! lol

I was a lil' caught off guard by the way he talked to the female customers that walked up. He told them to "shut the f up for 30sec". Then, 2hrs later they approached him again, and he told them to go back and tell their friend, "I meant it". Other than that, this show rocks and I'll be watching next week too.

By Chefgibz0 (Chefgibz0) on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Same here Snuff. I was put off a bit by the way he reacted to the ladies....I mean I do not know how the whole dining room/show is run or the people hold an agreement to eat there.....but they are the customers......and do not deserve to be treated as such.......on the part of the "crew"....i agree with all that was are going to get a premier rest. handed to better be ready for it.....and it is his not compromise it!!
Telling the mother to pick someone to be fired.......good move on his part...not hers to betray....and why did none of those so called "Chefs" rally the team and take control.....wimps....get the lead what you are made of or go home.......there needs to be more non-PC chefs in this country just like him and we would not have the problem Spike speaks of.

P.S.No dig at you spike just agreeing

By Chefacec (Chefacec) on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 06:40 am: Edit

Hmmnnn...Ya know what I noticed, or shall I say didn't notice? Brothers....Ya know why? Cause the next three shows would be about Doctors' trying to pull a Dansko from Gordon's a%#. Lord, How I wish he'd have tried that with one of my crew! Lawd, Lawd, Lawd....God couldn't even take that off of him. Good Luck Gordon...I have a 5' 3" Sous from Kansas that would kill ya....BTW, she's been with me almost eight years and she ain't no joke...Like you.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 12:18 pm: Edit

That sissy would have been dead if he had pulled that crap in Dee-troit.
English sissy. Hell, we even ran out the Germans!
He should start a show where he teaches prisoners how to cook, instead of picking on those kids,
without having there arms locked to the table like they do(they can only move about a foot each arm.)
Now theres a show I'd make popcorn for. LOL.

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 12:15 pm: Edit

so you dont' think that his methods are good? Like when he throws the the plate of risotto(looked like mortar) in the trash? Or when he stuck the plate on their chest and told them it was trash? Or when he asked the guy if he would serve it and he said no?
What part of that isn't good? Plenty of people say, "I'd whoop his ass if he did that to me". No you wouldn't, you'd go back and make the plate again... better.

By Chefgibz0 (Chefgibz0) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 12:28 pm: Edit


By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 03:04 pm: Edit

This kind of trash cheapens the profession. It enforces the idea that "Celebrity" is the ultimate goal. Because of this farce, now we are going to have a new crop of morons that think insults and tantrums are the way to run a kitchen. I thought that kind of chef was just about gone from this business.

If anybody ever acted like that in a kitchen they would be slapped so hard with a hostile work environment suite when they looked down all they would see is their ass.

By Santamuerte (Santamuerte) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 06:54 pm: Edit

i had a similar reaction. i thought his abusing customers was outrageous. and while i understand that he's got to put up a phony 'tough guy' act for the cameras, he physically assaulted several people. i was shocked that he didn't get his lights punched out, but then i realized, these people don't merely stand to lose a job, they stand to lose a whole restaurant (if i understand the terms). so this gives him an amazing amount of power, which, being the low-life wimp he is, he abuses ruthlessly.

he's a bully, and i can tell you from experience, *all* bullies are cowards and glass-jaw wimps. the only thing louder than their threats and chest-beating, is their whining when they get what's coming to them ;-)

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 09:07 pm: Edit

"he's a bully, and i can tell you from experience, *all* bullies are cowards and glass-jaw wimps. the only thing louder than their threats and chest-beating, is their whining when they get what's coming to them ;-)"...Learned this in high school.

"I'd whoop his ass if he did that to me". No you wouldn't, you'd go back and make the plate again... better.... No, I'd do what we did too the bully-pastry chef in detroit, smacked him around til he cried and locked him in the freezer. YOU'D swallow it and make another plate.

By Chefjoannam (Chefjoannam) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 09:25 pm: Edit

"you'd go back and make the plate again...better"

Not always true... Only if I respected the person in question. Only if I felt that person was honest and helpful in their critique. Shoving a plate back at me and saying, "What is this sh!t, you call this a _____?" will result in a stream of obscenities and you'd be short one worker for the night.

Haven't/won't see the show (don't watch tv) but folks, remember, THIS IS TELEVISION. How far do you think that the show would go if everyone ganged up on Ramsey and locked him in the cooler? Even if the collective cast had the testicular fortitude to do something like that, NO WAY that would ever make it on TV. They'd re-cast and re-shoot if the show went in that direction.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 09:59 pm: Edit

On second thought, I would just quit.
and ChefTim is right.
Who needs this kind of person in the kitchen?

I have an idea, lets file a Class Action suit against the show and the producers.
I think it will hurt biz for ALL OF YOU and result in stress(work and home), and poor sexual performance(work and home), loss of hair, weight gain, ect,ect...
PLUS your employees(and kids) now will taunt you knowing you CAN'T act like that cause it will cause even more stress, ect, ect....
anyone know a lawyer who needs some work???

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 10:14 pm: Edit

Chefjoannam said:

"but folks, remember, THIS IS TELEVISION"

I guess that's my point. Most people, at least the ones that watch this kind of tripe, won't make that connection. They will think it's reality, just as they believe in wrestling.
Bread and circuses, bread and circuses.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:11 pm: Edit

what do you mean?

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 10:51 am: Edit

MY point exactly, thanks for driving it home spike.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 11:29 am: Edit

I think this show is another blow to the profession much as "the restaurant " was, unfortunately many, (the majority) who watch tv think it's "reality" and we all know that if that happened in a restaurant today, the guy would have been arrested for assault or someone would of gone postal on him with a butcher knife!
This idiot perpetuates the lack of professionalism any business person should not!
I don't care how good he cooks, personally I had never heard of this guy until this show and will definitely not enrich his pocket by buying anything of his. I will continue to watch out of curiosity, I'm sure the new crop of "high end Culinary emporium" grads will fell a newly felt need to abuse their colleagues, and yes, I did grow in this business back when the European Chefs ran the kitchen with an iron fist and a temper to match but, this is gratuituos abuse and I hope one of those chicks kick him in the balls!
Personally I think most of the customers are actors and it's all a show, come on, who would run a kitchen like that, game or not?????
It is kind of like restaurant wrestling!!!!!!

By Jonesg (Jonesg) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Only prima donnas quit in the middle of service.
I trained with guys like Gordon, with the same pedigree in Paris (maxims), and they don't suffer fools with no common sense.
Its like boot camp, not for wimps.

I thoroughly enjoyed the show " please escort these ladies back to plastic surgery", chefs who tell customers exactly what the kitchen crew wished THEY could say are worshipped by the crew.
Thats why he succeeds, he is supported to the end by his crew.

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 07:38 pm: Edit

The owner of the school at which I work demanded that the chef send a letter to the show and their sponsors stating that they are just undoing the work of the ACF and schools like ours who are trying to bring the word "CHEF" into the world as one recognized as being a profession. Copies to the ACF and NRA.

I can't decide if it is wimpy or right. Maybe just standing up for those of us who try really hard to be professional??? I don't know as I haven't seen the show. One of my students has it and is going to tape it for me. Maybe it will be clearer then.

I think my owner is having a knee jerk reaction, my first feeling was... it is just TV! I mean, did you really believe that Survivor was real, or those marriage shows? I don't think so!!!

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 09:23 pm: Edit

could we get back to the wrestling thing now?
thats not real blood?

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 07:12 am: Edit

Na, it's beet juice....not to be confused with beetle juice!

By Corey (Corey) on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 10:42 am: Edit

I worked under a german chef in school for baking, and he was close to that guy,
he demanded nothing less then absulute perfection. without all the cussing thou.

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 11:25 am: Edit

I didn't catch this week's show, but I heard it was more of the same.

I agree w/ Manny that he is most definatly NOT a professional when it comes to business and how to treat employees and customers. However, you also have to remember that the editors of the show are going to cut out most of the "Hey, how are you?" stuff and put in what sells the show. Unfortunatly, that's "F you and this and that" w/ lots of bleeps. It's sad that that is what people want to see. On the other hand, it's pretty entertaining and has even us wanting to watch(out of curiosity).

Now that I read more of your responses and think about it more, I'll have to agree that if someone, and I don't care who it is, threw a plate of food into my chest and cursed me... would lose an employee in a snap. Lawsuit to follow maybe.

By Point83702 (Point83702) on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 04:09 pm: Edit

I think there should be a steel cage match between Rocco and Gordon. The winner gets sued by Spike.

P.S. haven't watched it/don't plan on watching it-I only get 4 channels at my new house and Fox isn't one of them, caught a little bit of Gordon on Charlie Rose though. Appeared to me as melodramatic masquerading as "no nonsense."

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 07:31 pm: Edit

I don't want to sue anyone.
But getting the winner in a cage match might be fun. LOL.
what are the weapons?

By Chefjoannam (Chefjoannam) on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 08:10 pm: Edit

Of course we get weapons. We use weapons every day: spiked meat mallet, flamethrower (butane torch) and of course, KNIVES!! Some days I really wanna use 'em as weapons, but so far, I've been able to restrain myself :-)

Let me bring this back on topic: I was just talking to a friend of mine who was interviewing servers, and he said that one of the girls had actually appeared on the Hell's Kitchen show as a server. She said that in real life, GR was a sweet guy to all the servers, but he was an ass on camera. So that's literally a "friend-of-a-friend" story, but it was interesting to hear.

By Tortesrus (Tortesrus) on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 11:41 pm: Edit

I caught part of the show with Charlie Rose, what DID impress me about GR was his comment something to the fact- that cooking was similar
to the medical profession, in that you must keep learning- always new knowledge and changes-that's not an exact quote- more the gist of it-
It really is a fluid and ever changing profession. -"just when I found all the answers they changed all the questions..." ):

By Jonesg (Jonesg) on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 05:35 am: Edit

I did catering with a woman who was an emergency room nurse, thats exactly how they act, like Gordon Ramsay, they treat the interns with the same pressure to weed out the wimps, nursing school is brutal as is triage.

Marine boot camp is the same, first they strip away the ego to see what sort of character a marine has underneath all the personality BS, then they build em up from there.

Its one thing to say "I'd never put up with that", of course not, but first ,are you qualified to work at that level. ?

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 07:41 am: Edit

Cooking is not brain surgery, even though many so called Chefs would have you think so!!!!'s not rocket science either!!!!!!....I know they told me so at the NASA cafeteria!!!

By Chefgibz0 (Chefgibz0) on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 09:23 am: Edit

And this ties in with the other concern Spike has....the one about qualified cooks cooking his food so he does not get sick again. Do you think for a minute that if there was a Chef at the "eat at your own risk" diner where Spike got sick that was as concerned about perfection as Chef Ramsay that anybody would ever get sick there????

As far as the "lack" of professionalism shown by Chef Ramsay.....I have two takes on it.
1) Yes, it is TV. Drama sells...plain and simple. When the blonde bimbos came to the counter to confront Chef about the wait foe the food do you really think that was NOT scripted. The chics where players in the game, ringers. Made for TV. Also, could the bimbos and the ordered pizza in episode 2 be training techniques to keep the so called Restaurant Inheritance on their toes and to think about all possiblities.
2) Chef Ramsay said it himself, "it is his reputation on the line. He did not come to America to look like a pansy". This is a Chef that has multiple establishments all with Micheline (sp) Stars. He has an established reputation. It is also his job to ensure that the person recieving the restaurant as well as Chef Ramsay's reputation attached is the best qualified and best trained in the short time he has to do it. To ensure that his reputation does not get tarnished. If any of you had a chance to give somebody a restaurant, TV or not, with your reputation attached would you or would you not do the best possible job in a short time to ensure that the place is a success and your reputation for being an reputed Chef stays intact?? I think you would.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 10:59 am: Edit

You really call that a good job?????
If I had restaurants with Michelin stars I would not be doing that type of show, he may be a nice enough guy in person and a great cook but, this just makes him look like an ass.
He should try training instead of "tirades" it works quite well, oh well maybe they'll have a season finally "Columbine" finish in the kitchen!

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 02:50 pm: Edit

well, let's hope it doesnt' lead to that

Is there a fine line between being too rude and crude and being a teacher? I mean, it's one thing to let someone know the plate they just made is crap and they need to do it again, vs throwing the plate full of food into their chest and throwing it away in the garbage.
A kitchen isn't bootcamp and it shouldn't be ran that way... poor comparison imo. Bootcamp is for people that are going to be put into a battle situation for their life. A kitchen is a place to cook...

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 08:10 pm: Edit

I would perfer to keep the comparisons to the military out of this. Nothing against the ones listed, I just don't think its a GOOD comparison.
What this guy does is degrade.
When you degrade, the mind slams doors shut that are open for you to learn.
The mind does this as a defence.
Whats left?
Do you learn so you don't have to hear or listen or catch the abuse?
or do you learn at a lower level, both are fear driven I would think.
When I learned from Chef's that threw things and talked down to me, all I wanted to do was go home.
I shut down. Before long I was looking for a new job. Stars mean nothing to me if they were made on the backs of dozens of cooks, waiters, ect. that didn't want to put up with the rants.
I just can't see how he was figuring this would be ok for the industry, that it would look good.
And if he has all these stars, how come he's not tending to those rest's where those people are EXPECTING HIM TO BE THERE TO PRODUCE THE DISHES THESE PEOPLE ARE PAYING OUT THE A*S FOR.
This is another reason why I don't go to these kind of rest's too much.
I'm paying for that Chef to be there and see/look/inspect my dish before it hits my table.
0.02 cents

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 11:14 am: Edit

good point on the mental side of the abuse, Spike.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 12:14 pm: Edit

What do you mean???....Spike's mental?????

By Loren_G (Loren_G) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 07:45 am: Edit

jesus you're a lot of soft-cocks.
'if you can't take the heat...' is really applicable here yeah? do us all a favour and stay in the states. touchy-feely warm fuzzy hr types have no place in this sort of kitchen. some of us love the heat and it drives us to excel. don't waste our time if you haven't got the back for the kitchen. keep your american dining experience to yourself. 8 hr shifts at denny's is not the zenith of fine dining though. but if you're happy with that experience i won't dissuade you. keep that in mind. seriously all i ever read here are complaints about too little bureaucracy and regulation. regulate yourselves by setting up a real apprintenceship scheme and TURN UP THE @#@#@#@# HEAT and stop pissing and moaning like little girls.

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:21 am: Edit

How very typical, confusing passion with bullying. Every kitchen bully I've ever worked with suffered from little dick syndrome. Kind of describes the land of OZ.

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:56 am: Edit

wow, Loren_G, making accusations already. Stay on that side of the pond and go buy a toothbrush and razor.
Does that apply to you or is that just a generalization?
I'd say most of the people here don't or won't work at a Dennys, but instead work in high end kitchens(maybe just like you). Get a better example before you try to belittle us...

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 09:03 pm: Edit

I wanna hear more from Loren G.
what do you do?
where do you work, what country?
I would imagine you went through the same training as many of us, yes?
Please come back, talk.

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 09:59 am: Edit

typical? Post some nonsense bashing on people then run off... wussy

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 10:16 am: Edit

Loren, you vile sod!!!!

By Loren_G (Loren_G) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:16 am: Edit

jesus people. look, perhaps i came off a bit abrasive... but i am reading this thread seeing comments such as '...lawsuit...', 'uncalled for', he's a meanie etc. and it makes me think that yanks are soft-cocks. christ you even edited out the 'f-word'! what kind of kitchens do you guys run over there? do you have group hugs before service? does feng-shui dictate the location of the hobart? you all seem hyper-sensitive to me. maybe even a bit fruity.
as far as ramsey, yeah he's a sexist and a racist and a bit of a bully. i know for a fact that he is a total ••••. but he is a hardcore chef and demands nothing less than the best. DEMANDS IT. i'll tell you right now that fear is a great quality control agent and fear instills great discipline. ramsay turns out some outstanding chefs, because the only chefs that can stand the heat are outstanding. it's the seperation of the wheat from the chaff. get it? ramsey is basically asking you every day, do you REALLY want to be here and learn or would you rather wash out and take it easy at ihop? that's the big question. i think you'd be better off embracing natural selection instead of coddling worthless 'chefs'. i've had plates thrown back at me. i've had plates thrown in the bin. but i didn't start thinking about lawsuits! instead i was humiliated and embarrassed. i had served up a dog@#@#@ plate and got caught out. i deserved it. maybe instead of ringing a solicitor you should take a minute to reflect on why your dog@#@## plate got kicked back. maybe take some responsibility. ask yourself why you even served up dogshit to begin with.
i think you people aren't familiar with the concept of complete respect (perhaps even reverence) of your head chef. lock ramsey in the coolroom? why? so you can have your 10 minute smoko every hour? what kind of chef do you aspire to be?

snuffaluff, i do work yeah. i am in a different timezone hey. or do you expect me to hang over the refresh key in anticipation of your reply?

chefspike, i am currently in melbourne australia. two and three hat restaurants are always 'understaffed' because we have to offset high foodcosts. as a result i dont 'do' a particular section. i doubt we've shared a common training. if we had, then you would probably see this topic from a perspective similar to my own.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:30 am: Edit

If you have to offset food cost by cutting labor I guess the two or three hats don't mean "dog#$#$", since you can't charge a modest price for your product to make a descent profit.
So, you have to work hard, in fear, in order to become good, sounds like a street pimp talking!

By George (George) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Loren G,

You seem to have the abilty to express yourself well, perhaps even without using 4 letter words.

A lot of the traffic here is kids looking into the business. Allowing cursing in the public forums would get the site banned by parental and school web access programs (unfortunately the religious wright has a lot of clout here in the states)

Even though you are Australian I hope you can express yourself without cursing.


By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 08:21 pm: Edit

I think the whole thing is a joke.
I think anyone as crazy as you about food and chefs should get a life.
I think com'in on here and trying to berate a bunch of people mostly having fun about some @#@## Nut Case on TV. is stupid.
Someone should shoot him, and you. Because your both crazy. How about that for " i think you'd be better off embracing natural selection"
Someone shoot you, thats the kind of selection I'm looking for.
Your not in the most Culinary country either, why don't YOU step up and go work somewhere where the compitition is at least at the level where the chefs you tryed to berate here is.
Your a #$@#$, and a Di*k and why don't you give us your name so I can send over one of my friends, in melbourne, to you to kick your a*s and maybe have dinner while he's there.
and your right we don't share-have a common training past. I CAN cook better than you, and I'm a Pastry Chef!
Pi*s off you beginer, go peel some potatoes

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 08:23 pm: Edit

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHahahaha !!!!!!!!!!!!

By Tamsin (Tamsin) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Hey Loren G please don't give Aussies a bad name.
And before you have a shot at me about not working in 3 hat restuarants here in Australia, I've worked in fine dining 5 star restuarants within hotels both here and overseas, I love cooking at those standards and still am, but with chefs who are awesome, and don't treat you like total crap, if the plate isn't right they give it back to you, tell you to do it again, don't shout and scream at you, and I have got to say I've got more respect for them than those chefs that throw it at you.
Also from your posting you seem very passionate about your profession, that's great, but I think there is a point where people mix up passion and agression, and thats where it gets all screwed up.
Well done Chefmanny on your comments about the food/labour, if the job is so bad Loren G, then LEAVE! don't come on here and complain about it. Many of the chefs on here I'm sure have 10 times as much experience than you probably do, oh wait we can't acutally see what experience you have because you don't put it in your profile, but of course you work so many hours that you don't have time to do that do you now? The chefs on here are great, really helpful, don't come on here to complain, if you don't like what they are saying then leave, they didn't ask you to be here.
As for their training, having working in Canada (who's training is very similar to the one in America) with apprentices and knowing what their training is like, it's far better than our Tafe training, the exams are so much hard than ours, so unless you know about something, don't make a comment on stuff you really have no idea about.

By Tamsin (Tamsin) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 09:43 pm: Edit

Oh and chefspike

"Your not in the most Culinary country either, why don't YOU step up and go work somewhere where the compitition is at least at the level where the chefs you tryed to berate here is"

Hey we are trying down here, want to come give us some help?

By Santamuerte (Santamuerte) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 10:06 pm: Edit

loren_g, i spent 6 months in oz, shuttling between brissy, syd, and melb. and i had only one decent meal the entire time, in a no-name, el-cheapo singapore noodle joint run by, what else, singaporeans, that cost less than ten dollars. everything else was a shameless rip-off.

you people have good ingredients; too bad you've got no clue what to do with them. the resto scene in oz is worse -- and i'd never say this lightly -- than in the usa, which is pretty much the ninth circle of hell food-wise. so don't try to lecture me on toughening up my cooks, apprentice boy.

i don't need to be a consummate dick and torture anyone to see that they can't cook; i can see it five minutes after they start. and i don't need to humiliate them, or make a grotesque spectacle of myself, to get rid of them; i just quietly invite them to leave. that alone makes them miserable enough to satisfy anyone's sadistic instincts. even yours...

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:27 pm: Edit

See, see, good well trained Chef's that don't throw anything or bruse people that work for them.
Well trained. That TV Chef is crazy and so are you.

Chef Tamsin,

I've proven myself all I'm going to.
This proffesion is too damn crazy for me these days. Too much crap and fluff.
I like doing pastries parties for friends and thats about it.
I would like to go to Aust. before I die.
Maybe, someday, it's like 5 on the list.
Have a good day chef.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 07:22 am: Edit

I have to stop going to bed so early!!!!!
Look at all I miss!!!

By Foodpump (Foodpump) on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 09:37 am: Edit

Now this gets interesting. I've worked for many Chefs, in three continents, but I never stick around for abuse. Now Loren g, you say fear is a great motivator, and this is very true, but fear does as much damage as it does good. The best motivator is.... respect. If I have respect for a Chef, I'll do anything he wants, work 14 hrs to get my mise just right, spend my free time at the library or bookstore looking up stuff, plotting out kitchen moves in my head at 4 am in the morning while in bed, I'll give every gram of motivation, skill, and sweat for a Chef who I respect. For a Chef I fear, I have nothing but contempt, and will ultimately look for a way to stab him in the back.

By Tamsin (Tamsin) on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Santamuerte I'm interested do u have the names of the places that you ate at? I'm sure that places such as Tetsuya, Aria, Rockpool, Flying Fish, wasn't on the list.
I won't deny you will get crap food throughout the world, but Australia does have some great world class chefs and restaurants, sure our culinary industry isn't as large and established as that in America but we make do with what we have. Australian food is different to that which you will find in America such as the British and French and so on, is different, got to keep that in mind.
I just ask people on here, please don't turn this into a "Hate Australia" thing because of one stupid Aussies comments.

Chefspike, if you come down to visit here, I want cooking lessons from you and to be able to pick that brain of yours!

By Santamuerte (Santamuerte) on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 05:40 pm: Edit

Tasmin, i'm not trying to start a feud with aussies. i've already confessed to being an american, and we have little to brag about in terms of cooking, and far worse ingredients that you have to work with. it's been a long time since i was there (1994), but i recall eating at the windsor hotel in melb, a place overlooking the opera house in syd that was highly recommended (with a funny name which i can't recall), and a japanese place at the sanford plaza in bris, also recommended, and also a name i forget.

of course i ate at lots of mid-range, and even more casual, joints all the time too. far too many to recall now. i mean, i don't go for haute cuisine every day.

overall, i was impressed with the ingredients, and not much with the kitchen skills. but even a mickey d's burger tastes better because the meat is better. i stayed with friends for a while in qld and did a lot of cooking, and was grateful for vegs and meats that taste like they're supposed to. here in the states, they merely look like they're supposed to. so i was able to eat very nicely then.

you can go to daniel or le bernadin in new york, and then to taillevent or tour d'argent in paris, and see what i mean. we new-worlders just don't have our act together. when i eat in a top resto in paris, i usually say, there is nothing i could have made better. when i eat at a top place in new york, i always say that i could have made just about everything better. once, in a very famous dc joint, the waiter, who was european, asked me what i thought of a pretty vegetable dish showing lots of fancy mandoline work. i told him, quite seriously, "if i had made it, i would have thrown it away." it was utterly flavorless. he nodded with a cynical "so, it's not my imagination" look.

sorry to say it, but we in the new world are monkey see monkey do in terms of cuisine. and i'll cop to it myself. i do my best, but i just can't get the raw materials i need. in europe, the best ingredients are readily available, and basically, all you have to do is not get sloppy in terms of technique.

By Santamuerte (Santamuerte) on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 11:19 pm: Edit

foodpump, while i was coming up i worked for a chef that i have always tried to emulate. he was the best i've ever known. he never lost his temper; he never raised his voice; he never insulted anyone. when he was displeased, he'd say politely, "i think you need to 'refine' that dish before we can serve it."

i worked my heart out for him, because disappointing him was literally intolerable. he was so sincere about it, it just crushed you. in teaching me, he always stayed exactly one step ahead of where i was: not two steps, not four, but exactly one. i would have done anything he asked. if he had said, "bring me the head of a small brown person" i would have done it.

that is leadership.

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 10:38 am: Edit

"bring me the head of a small brown person"


Respect isn't earned through fear. Disrespect is and as one stated, it will ulitmatly lead to someone wanting revenge on said individual. You can call us soft cocks or whatever, but the truth is, being scared of your boss is much worse than actually respecting him.

And yes, I expect you to sit clicking that refresh button every 10seconds until I post again. Everyone here knows that I'm the authority in the culinary world... listen to me or be gone... lmao

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 01:49 pm: Edit

I tell you what I think is great. Gordon Ramsey is on another show called The Food Network Celebrity Chef hunt. There are some real laughs their. They cut the damn blonde the first week. Then mean machine went bye bye.

Maybe the guy that has the talent can come thru.I did however think the two gay men were great, but not what I look for when I am watching a food network show.What about the funny guy all cracked out? That is funny as well.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 11:56 pm: Edit

"Chefspike, if you come down to visit here, I want cooking lessons from you and to be able to pick that brain of yours!"....


"i'm not trying to start a feud with aussies."

I'm not either. end of story.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 12:11 am: Edit

"I have to stop going to bed so early!!!!!
Look at all I miss!!!"

it's because your an old fart, thats why you go to bed early.

By Tamsin (Tamsin) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 02:09 am: Edit

Hey chekspike, I'm trying to be nice

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 09:05 pm: Edit

I'm sorry Chef Tamsin,
I mistook you for that Loren person.
My mistake, please forgive me.

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 01:27 am: Edit

Did Loren leave? He seems so very angry. His language is inappropriate and his venom is misspent. We are not the enemy! Too bad he isn't able to communicate without being foul. It might be an interesting exchange.
I think there are some very good, even excellent, restaurants around this country and I am sure there are in Australia, too. Why do we need to compete with Europe? I have had some of the best food ever in little, humble, out of the way places with no noteriety (sp?) at all. Does great food have to come from a high end, prestigious place? I think not! A little something for everyone maybe.

By Tamsin (Tamsin) on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 11:14 pm: Edit

That's ok spike <sniff, sniff> I've come out of the corner after crying my eyes out all day and night, not being able to carry on with my life....... I think I can get over it.

And can stop laughing now aswell.
No hard done, got to remember I'm a chef and we are after all, all hard skinned.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 11:37 pm: Edit

wish i was.(thick skinned)
wanna pick my brain?
pick away.
but i'm sure theres not much i could tell ya.
correction, i know theres not anything i could tell ya 'bout cooking.
now pastry... well who knows?
one thing, do ya have a good chili dog down there mate?

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 11:44 pm: Edit

loren is a guys name?
that was a guy?

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 12:29 am: Edit

Um, yeah he said it. TETSUYA.I briefly looked over some of the controversy and have come into the chat room a littel late. But, the rules are to contribute.

I do not know if I am taking sides, because I am of my own. I am going to say that I understand where Loren is coming from as a well as some of you others do too. Loren is speaking of some of the major league of cooking. The pace at some of these places is torrid. I know I have done my share. But I would be careful dropping names of that magnitude. Those are some pretty big names to be dropping without permission. There are some pretty big names right know chomping at the bit. I know I would be careful with the info I have on some big names.

Some of the hardest nose SOB's taught me more than some. However, right know I share the kitchen with a friend and good chef. We both use the softer method. However, their are times of blood boiling in service when a chef has to control 9 dynamic linecooks all with qulaity skill and culinary educations. Let's face it most of your good linecooks cannot be replaced especially if you are doing any and I meann any volume.My 9 guys are from all over the world some Mexico, Acapulco, Russia some serious bung goes down in some of these places. You have to demand on ocassion, and you might get asked to walk out back. I have truly seen linecooks take it out back. I am not condoning violence, but cooking sometimes with caliber skills can get hairy to control during the busy service.

To be honest, I think let's face it. Some of the names this person metioned are atop the top 10. Not the top 50. Also, from what I here from some other grapevine asscoiates, which I cannot disclose. Their is alot of that going on right know.

I just wanted to add my share. I can contribute a little.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 08:13 am: Edit

Maybe he got fired!!!!!

By Tamsin (Tamsin) on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 10:11 am: Edit

Ummmm ChefonCall, those places where restuarants I was talking about in Sydney, that Loren person (whether male or female, I thought female) works down in Melborne. There are some top resturants down there, but personally I think Sydney has the better ones and have chefs that are not only known within Australia but also widely overseas.

chefspike, chilli dog YUCK! I try to stay away from those things

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 12:30 pm: Edit

chili dogs are one of the best food "things" out there.
how could you stay away from something so pure?
so perfect.
so right.

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 10:30 pm: Edit

Yes Chef,
I was not to sure what Tamisin was saying. Loren however seemed to have found his/or her niche down under. A few chefs I know that know some of the skinny per se down under tell there are some thrilling restaurants establishments.

I hate to tell you but he is right. That is pretty much how it happens below from what I have been told. I can say this. They are well connected in Austrailia too the international culinary scene. If I were going to Australia I would defintely go openmided.It would really be an honor to be accepted to linecook on cold station and get paid, because it would be worth the "Culinary schooling".

However, this persons sinsai forgot how to teach him to spread gossip. Especially on the internet.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 01:06 am: Edit

wide spead or not, does not make it right.
i like the idea in general, except the fear factor, and with people com'in and going your never going to get a union vote established (which I like)
but 1. good people don't stay long.
and 2. your name turns to mud if this is how you choose to teach.
its so old fashion to teach this way, theres just no need for it.
in fact, there never was.
minds are grown and stimulated with knowledge, not fear of being replaced because you screwed up on a plate of food.
thats not something to get fired for, nor is it a reason to treat someone like dirt.
they do it down there because they are way behind, and still walking on their knuckles.
nothing but ego.
and anyone willing to go work for these as*holes has something wrong with them to begin with.
including that loren guy, girl, thing, it.
it makes me laugh, cause that would NEVER happen here, and I bet pound for pound, and percentage wise we(America, and lets include Canada)has better food and rest's and talent, and people than they do.
but with that all said, they have a hell of a military. God bless them.

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 04:28 pm: Edit

My only question is about most attrition kitchens were everybody is competeing against everybody. What really matters to the owners is that the bottom line is where he wants it. You can plate the best raspberry buerre monte in creation and even use gold raspberries with a perfect poached salmon, heck grill it or even sautee the darn thing. But if you only sale on or two a night why sale it. Sometimes people want red peppers and different flavors and some nights people buy spanish rice instead of wild rice and textures and some even like char flavors and some will even want to get a hold of a good sauteed chicken lemon. It is really common for good chefs to understand what sales and how to approach there customers. What is really important should be the #1 question on every chef's mind a day.

Honestly, it is kind of thrilling to have a owner to tell you business it not about being nice it's about business. Really, not everyone is cut out to be a Chef. You have to let people go and you have to get results. That is the only way to get the job done. That is what the job is about. Not just creating a plate of food. Yes, all the fancy dinners are fun to look at but for a business if it is not cost effective meaning if you can't pay your vendors and you cant't pay your bills. ce beouf n'est pass assez cuit.(the beef is not enough)as one owner I know puts it.His favorite saying meaning charge more for the beef dinner feature.

Being a chef requires imense dedication,artistic habits as well as a good knack for business. On a chefs free time there are many different cooking hobbies to be involved in. I like to sometime use my artistic nature to go to cooking contests when I am not at the restaurant.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 10:48 pm: Edit

Please, this is cooking not "Miss America"!!!!!!!
Competing for what????...who'll do dishes when the DW walks out?????.......some of us need to get a life, kids, this will burst your little "unreality" bubble in the kitchen folks!!! get your spot on and get a life!!!
(No offense, just reality)

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Yes the reality of most restaurants is like that. However most of our clients are models, actors or celeberties. Some even appear on television as well as many personal celebrity appearances. I think it was last week we catered Jimmy Johnson's coca cola 600 victory party nice guy. That was the guy that won the coca-cola 600. Yeah he did. Him and Jeff like to hang out together. He liked the cheese tray and the melon and ice carving I did. They love to eat our cold french fries left under the heat lamp. We cannot seem to get the linecooks to stop over cooking to many fries. I guess I should be harder on them like throw a plate of food at one of my international line cooks.

Where I work we turn dishwahsers away. We hire three per shift meaning six per day. Because we cannot differntiate between lunch and dinner. Although we do have slow period between 3 and 4 to clean before second shift comes on. One runs load, one does sautines, and the other runs support/utlity she puts away the dishes from the load. Itis really a one man job but we manage to squeeze in two on the machine helps things run so much more efficient and on girl washes manually.

Food TV has a new contest out I heard called. How do you Iron Chef. Seemed like an imaginative way to fulfill my afternoon writing a letter to Gordon Ramsey rather than cleaning the mop sink or scrubbing a trash can. We hire that out to the janitorial company.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 12:46 am: Edit

"I guess I should be harder on them like throw a plate of food at one of my international line cooks"

Aim High. Give it a good spin.

Couldn't hire American Line cooks?
What Nation are they from?
I don't understand.

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:07 am: Edit

Some nationalities have different natural body movements.If you have ever been around it you know what I mean. More contoured to working the line. They have a good knack for hot behind you.They sense and almost guess your next move almost a killing instinct.They are not clumsy footed as most americans are. They have a style of their own that moves and flows and never disrupts the flow. Pretty cool to watch. I will mention one I know. Alfonso Hernandez origin Mexico City. We call him "Fonso". We lifted him from a local high end steak house about a year ago. The owner wanted someone that could cook the grill without a mistake.I made him the offer personally. I have personally seen him cook a $4000.00 1/2 hour without overcooking anything. He has also been crossed trained on many other things.

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:40 am: Edit

I see my international line cooks go to school partime after taking culinary arts and to learn to speak english so they will be able to keep up with american population because they live here.

Accordingly, It is sparce in an american country to see any american TRY to open his or her mind to the fact of learning foreign language breaking many barriers and learning magnificant dishes from other coutnries and learning new languages is challenging and exciting not to mention shows motivation to be apart of a community.

Honestly, what you do after work is you damn business. But, I have seen AMERICAN damn linecooks spend $100's of dollars on boose after work rather than on educating there own minds to do me a better job. It is almost unreal. My salad station attendent is a foreign exchange student from Russia. Her parents owned a store shop in Kladiv, Chelvosky. I was lucky and honored enough as well as humble to be able to communicate with a Russian speaking CHILD THAT SPEAKS TWO FLUENT LANGUAGES and wants to learn to cook. I know all of culinary land might be able to read this.

But when I went to Culinary school to learn my trade. I signed up to do exactly what I do. I my time excpet from working literally 72 hours a week organizing the cuisine for the restaurant. I find time to learn 3 new languages to communicate with my staff, write menus, and continuing education. The neat thing is I am 31.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 06:10 am: Edit

Talk about "kitchen racial profiling"!!!!

"Some nationalities have different natural body movements."

"They got rhythm, right?

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 10:51 am: Edit

Culinary Insititute of America November 5th, 2005. "A World of Flavors" with some guest speakers who are chefs. Check out the website The whole weekend can range from $1000 to $1500. Great educational trip. Walk around the campus meet interesting chefs and people. Try cuisine from around the globe.

By Retired (Retired) on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:45 pm: Edit

This is reality like "Survivor" is reality. You can't tell me that a dozen newbies can walk into a kitchen one morning with no prep, nobody behind the scenes doing stocks & sauces, etc? Who made the dough that got mangled into pasta? Who prepped the lobster for the lobster spaghetti that was served on day one? For that matter, who made the lobster stock, formed the beef wellingtons, broke down the salmons, made the brioche dough, etc, and when?

By George (George) on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 04:03 pm: Edit

You occasionally see other folks in plain white chef coats in the shots.

The whole thing is a farce. If there was a shred of credibility to it you would have teams made up of competent cooks. Not the bunch of misfits they have assembled.

It's pure show biz period. The only problem with that is that the room temperature IQ public might take it at face value.


By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 08:40 pm: Edit

"I see my international line cooks go to school partime after taking culinary arts and to learn to speak english so they will be able to keep up with american population because they live here."

Chef, are these people legal?

"Accordingly, It is sparce in an american country to see any american TRY to open his or her mind to the fact of learning foreign language breaking many barriers and learning magnificant dishes from other coutnries and learning new languages is challenging and exciting not to mention shows motivation to be apart of a community"

Chef, what are you kidding me?, what the hell do you think we, thats Americans have been doing since the 1950's when the european invasion came on us? just sitting here?
what is it, hate America day?
Where are you from Chef?

"Some nationalities have different natural body movements.If you have ever been around it you know what I mean. More contoured to working the line. They have a good knack for hot behind you.They sense and almost guess your next move almost a killing instinct.They are not clumsy footed as most americans are. They have a style of their own that moves and flows and never disrupts the flow"...

again, hahahahahahah...are you kidding me or what? Baby Jesus in a car seat!...that statement is so full of sh*t
So,...your NOT AN American, Right?,...what Russian? Maybe from Israel? Do you mention this to your customers Chef, you know, the ones down there in good old boy land? where are you again? ah thats right, North Carolina.
You in a Great State there Chef, I'd think you wouldn't sound so snobish 'bout all them illegals you got working for ya.
But I guess it takes one to know one.
Ya ahl' have a nice day Chef.

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 02:33 am: Edit

I started 15 years ago by washing 100pound bags of oysters and might have some good years left, and I have traveled everywhere even to Greenland. No joke.I have met people from every walk of life and love it.

But honeslty, everytime I see a new culinary event or a new continuing ed class or have to cook another batch of creme brulee I feel like the first day I ever saw Le Cordon Bleu.I have met more people and have had some of the best dinners and have cooked for so many famous people and even worked privately for a Mayor. I love being a cook. I still have that exciting feeling in the bottom of my stomach as I did when I went to school. Even through the tough days.

The day I wake up and do not love it like I have everyday since August 1988. Then that is the day I go. But as I know. I am looking for different prospects for jobs and leaving for Europe again in 2006 to cook. The hardest thing about this job somtimes is the darn goodbyes. I miss some of my old chef's and my old mentors my friends sometimes. Somedays not everyday it gets darn hard to say goodbye. If I have it my way. I will standing by my stove at 60. Slumped over with my pressed whites cooking for another client.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Spike, this is the ignorance that is "mid-America"!!!!
Me in FL. , you in CA., NY, we are the exception to the rule man, most Americans would freak out at the sight of the melting pot of nationalities like we have in those three states I mentioned above.
They'd probably call a SWAT team out if they saw a Hatian, Cuban, Mexican or PR in Ohio or anywhere in the Mid-West man!!!!!
You have no idea man!!!! shocks me when I travel,.....then I get home and see, we are not the norm in the USA!!!!!...neither is CA, or NY.

By George (George) on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 09:28 am: Edit

Hold on, middle America has kitchens without "international" friends.

I find that hard to believe.

Can anyone from middle America confirm this?


By Chefgibz0 (Chefgibz0) on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 11:08 am: Edit

North Carolina has a huge population of latin americans, jamacians, russians, french. Raleigh Durham has a huge influx of Indian (not native american) in it's midst. To me it is ignorant to think that a few states in the union hold melting pots. I used to live in Western New York and I see more ethnisities in N.C. than I saw up north.

By Chefgibz0 (Chefgibz0) on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 11:11 am: Edit

Not to metion either mich. or minn. has a large population of Iraqi refugees with dual citizenships.

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 11:36 am: Edit

This area is somewhat in a booming trend. There are alot of restauraunts opening quick and also shutting the doors quick as well.

My owner tells me that here as of now the market for jobs is very tight as to what it used to be. This area is growing and changing. I have been here for a good stint of 5 years close to six. I think I am going to finish up around the Janurary to April time frame where I am at.

By Jonesyb (Jonesyb) on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 05:52 pm: Edit

Just read the first couple of posts in this thread.

The UK version of Hells Kitchen I thought was very good indeed. Can't believe Gordon made those non chef (celebrity) people do what they did. It was impressive to see.

If anyone does not know much about Gordon Ramsey I can tell you he achieved his 3rd Michelin Star at his selfed named restaurant in London in 2001. Which I do believe (Please do correct me if I am wrong) is the highest award that can be achieved from Michelin. Impressive stuff!!

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 01:40 am: Edit

To earn a Michelin in France is big stuff in France. In america I believe that Chef's that care about cuisine and the culinary history of cuisine care about understanding the Michelin. It is not so "hard" to say awarded a one star rating if you are believed to have that caliber training. That does'nt mean anyone can do it or that you will be able to earn it and same token that good chef's do not exists that never obtain an one star rating. In terms of the second and between the third there is not much difference in the food. However, from the second to the third in terms of the whole operation there is a big point seperation. From what I am told remains largely upon the chef.

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 10:16 am: Edit

While the food gets the credit, Michelin Stars rate a whole restaurant. From the type of floor coverings to the lighting. It is an experience rating.
If the greatest food in the world is served on Buffalo China with Onidaware stainless it won't even get a look.

By Chefoncall (Chefoncall) on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 01:54 pm: Edit

I like what Chef Tim said. The best food in the world? That is what I like so much about cuisine and food and regional influence to everything. It can change and be altered in any way.

However, I think as a Chef I should understand the importance of the Michelin and it's cofounders.

I think it is like Chef Guy Savoy said. "I owe everything to the ones before me". So true. Nothing is original unless it is made to be.

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 07:30 pm: Edit

"Hold on, middle America has kitchens without "international" friends.

I find that hard to believe.

Can anyone from middle America confirm this?"

I am in California, but I know that there is a huge coyote group who ferry people from Mexico to Chicago. Isn't that middle America? I have also heard that there are groups of southeast Asians living in Kansas and Nebraska (I have no personal knowledge, just written rumor.) There are a lot of aliens in Washington who have come across the border there (especially southeast Asians.) I think our whole country is known as a melting pot, maybe we just need to simmer a little :-)

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Afraid you won't find too many middle Americans here either!!!!!!

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 01:17 am: Edit

I fear I may be the last.
hell in a hand basket I tell you, hell in a hand basket.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 11:10 am: Edit

You???!!!, you are in one of the armpits of the USA; and I'm in the other!!!!!!!!!

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 08:37 pm: Edit

california and florida.
you said it.

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