The New Bakers Dozen
Finding malt syrup and fresh yeast

The The Bakers Dozen: Finding malt syrup and fresh yeast
By Flattop (Flattop) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 08:16 pm: Edit

I've decided to make bread at home to supplement the lack of time we have for class. One 4 hour class a week. We just don't have enough time to spend on the products. So I'm doing extra homework.

Where will I be able to find fresh yeast and malt syrup? I want to get both a sponge and a sour starter going.

I forgot to ask Chef where to look before class had ended.

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 10:50 pm: Edit


Don't use yeast to get your sour starter going! If you must, fresh yeast is available in any good market in a little cake wrapped in foil in the refrigerated dairy area or deli area where you would find sour cream and such.

I think you will like the flavor much better if you let the natural yeasts do the work for you.

By Flattop (Flattop) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 11:47 pm: Edit

The yeast is just for my use on standard breads and the sponge. I plan on play with the sours to see what I can come up with. I want to see how the flavors can been changed for good or bad.

By Steve9389 (Steve9389) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 09:53 am: Edit

Hey, Flattop. You could always drop a brick of yeast in your kit -- discretely, of course. At our school, they buy so much yeast that it goes bad before we can use it all.

Or, our pastry chefs tend to use dry active or instant yeast at home -- use half the amount of dry active compared to fresh, one-fourth of instant. A lot of them swear by instant, which you don't have to dissolve first.

- Steve

By Flattop (Flattop) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 10:38 am: Edit

One of the reasons that I'm going to do the apprenticeship is the lack of material in the class room. We ran out of flour in the first class. I know that this is because the department didn't have Chef come in and help set it up before the class started but it was kinda depressing. So the snagging a brick is impossoble but I can get the malt syrup there.

I've been using instant at home and that's kinda why I'd like to use fresh. Granted it does make homework go a lot quick using the instant :D

By Kinglear (Kinglear) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Why use the fresh yeast? All you are doing is lugging around excess water. Granted, it's a useful teaching tool to learn to understand how yeast works, but after you know, what's the point? I find the stuff unpredictable, easily susceptable to temperature and humidity damage.
I love SAF instant yeast--works great every time, keeps forever and it's not heavy or stinky.

By Flattop (Flattop) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 04:27 pm: Edit

I was just trying to duplicate the class enviroment at home. I will be doing the instant yeast instead mainly due to time issues.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 06:39 pm: Edit

"I find the stuff unpredictable, easily susceptable to temperature and humidity damage.
I love SAF instant yeast--works great every time, keeps forever and it's not heavy or stinky"

This is why bread has a tendency to be the same everywhere you go. Bread, like yeast is alive, and the art to making good bread as close to what is produced in Europe is the changing conditions. Whats next?, instant sauces?, of course you as chef's would say NO!, NEVER! Why is it that Baking or Desserts or Pastry is the first thing thats "alright" to fudge on. I hear a bunch of mighty talk coming from many here, over the last couple of years about fancy ingriedents, whos who with food writers, ect, ect....maybe the reason is because you can't get bread right with the fresh yeast? ( I'm just asking ) I never remember the French, or Germans, or the Austrians using instant. Flattop, I think its wonderful that your doing extra at home, but please, take the time to use the fresh and LEARN how to do it RIGHT. It's not that difficult.
"Hey, Flattop. You could always drop a brick of yeast in your kit -- discretely, of course. At our school, they buy so much yeast that it goes bad before we can use it all.".....correct me if I'm wrong but if it's not given to you to take home, wouldn't that be... STEALING. Thats not a class now is it??

By Flattop (Flattop) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Okay Spike, I'll find some to use. I had a feeling that you'd say that. I do want to get it right. I'm still considering being a pastry chef so I've chopping at the bit to start this class. Hell,I'd bet Chef Winter will have extra for us to take home to do extra work at home. He's a real bastard. I like him already.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 08:36 pm: Edit

YES!!!!!, all mine were bastards. LOL.
Ya know what they say..............................."Learn it right the first time and then later you can screw around with it, to fit your needs".
Maybe you should start posting your report card too, for Chef Manny and the rest of the Chef's here to see. Look what it's done for Steve.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 09:06 pm: Edit

Fresh yeast is best, love the stink!
This is why convinience food is so popular, it's consitent, predictable, garbage at times!
Do it right, this is why the small shops are making a come back.
Read the news fellas, first QUARTER EVER McD's has reported a loss!!!!!
THERE IS A CULINARY GOD!!!!!!!!!And he's pissed off!!!Next, BK!

By Flattop (Flattop) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 09:41 pm: Edit

Final Grades


Student Information: Michael Swaggerty
Term: Fall 2002
Degree: Bachelor of Arts
Major: Hospitality, Meeting & Tvl Adm
Level: Undergraduate
Academic Standing: Good Standing

Undergraduate Subject Title Final Grade
Principles of Restaurant Admin A 2.00
Food Service Sanitatn & Safety B 2.00
Kitchen Procedures & Prdctn I A 4.00
Enology: Stdy Wine in Hsptlty A 3.00
Catering and Menu Planning A 3.00

Current: 3.86

Cumulative: 3.33

I should have had an A in Food Service Sanitation & Safety. I just didn't study hard enough for the final

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Flattop, those are pretty damn good, keep it up!!!
after BK, Denny's, and all those damn taco rest things..................there is a God!!!
and he use's fresh yeast.

By Chefrev (Chefrev) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 11:11 pm: Edit

I am a recent fresh yeast convert. I have SEEN THE LIGHT! Used instant or even fast rise for years, but fresh is nice too. It's not so much in need of pampering like those sleepy dried yeast beasties. It's up and ready when you are. But it does go bad FAST! And when it does go bad, OY!

I like the flavor of a nice sour dough starter in breads. Used a biga a while back that had been around for about two years when I got it. You just add what you take out and put in some unsalted bread dough once in a while and it's happy. Mine had a name too: Linda (don't ask).

Once thought about trying wild yeast by leaving the lid off a batch of flour and water but unless you make a lot of bread in the environment where the starter is, there will be fewer airborne natural yeasts floating around. Would be fun to try, but I'm no Nancy Silverton.

P.S.: Nice grades, Flattop! Keep up the good work! And as far as malt syrup goes, I've found a nice dark molasses will do just as nicely.

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 12:58 am: Edit

You know what Yeast is yeast. I can get the same result from SAF instant, flieshmans dried, fresh what ever it's all yeast. All it takes is the experience to know how to use it.

By Steve9389 (Steve9389) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 10:33 am: Edit

I take your point, Spike, but I don't take anything home without an instructor telling me -- also discretely -- that it's OK. Usually it's either that it'll go bad and get tossed otherwise, or that I need to practice at home. Frankly, the amount of waste that goes on in this school is absolutely criminal, so I don't feel bad for taking stuff home with the tacit approval of instructors ("If it falls on the floor, it falls on the floor") if it's going to get tossed anyway.

And Flattop, THEY RAN OUT OF FLOUR??? Yikes! Between that and the house knives, I'm really starting to appreciate my school. Good grades, though. A B in sanitation won't kill you. Chances are it won't kill anybody else either.

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 11:23 am: Edit

"Yeast is yeast"... I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that one. I have used different kinds and find that they do have different characteristics. Some are better for particular applications, some for others.

I tried the wild yeast thing in Visalia (California's central valley surrounded by a lot of farmland filled with fruit trees, cotton, and grapes) and could only get a mess that smelled and tasted like garbage. I wondered if all of the chemicals in the air affected my yeast. In San Francisco the wild yeast was wonderful and a friend of mine who lived down the street from a brewery got the best I have ever tasted. Here in the mountains, I have not been successful with wild strains.

I think having the experience to know how to use it is necessary, but I definitely think there is a taste and raising ability difference.

My .02

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:54 pm: Edit

speaking of schools...went to take a look at that closed down sizzler, man! would that be just right for what I want. I hope at least the owners of this mall listen to what I've put together.
Ran out of flour?, can't say it never happened to me. Never in school.
Can I ask you guys what you pay, for how many weeks of school, and what you get when you walk in the door?
knives? clothes? ect, ect.

By Flattop (Flattop) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 11:47 pm: Edit

The biggest problem with the program that I'm in is that it is brand new and they are working out the bugs as they go along. There aren't any CCE's on as staff yet. We are using Chefs from The Colorado Institute of Arts as part time staff. The program itself is not really designed to develope future chef as much as it is food and beverage management. They are very business oriented and do that end extremely well. It's going to take time for them to get the program in full swing. They are mainly trying to make it so that as kitchen and F&B managers we would have a working knowledge of the kitchen. I was told going in that if I wanted to develop my culinary skills that I should go to Johnson & Wales for the one year program. As for the flour the person who ordered it was not expecting Chef to actually make the whole class make bread. Total miscommunitation is all. That and the fact that the class doesn't have a working bugdet yet.

It's a four year 120 creidit hour degree. I will walk out with a working knowledge of how to run a restaurant both ends of the house plus hotel stuff too. It's very focused on business, legality, and personnel aspects.

You get nothing when you walk in the door which is one thing that we are working on through our student club. I honestly beleive that once the program has had a chance to get it funded and staffed that it will be a very good program but it will never be a true culinary arts school. But it really makes no claim to be that anyway. We are those that are going to be running the chain restaurants and holiday inn f&bs

By Steve9389 (Steve9389) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 09:43 am: Edit

Spike, I pay $7,000 per semester, though I'm grandfathered in and they've raised that to almost $9,000 per semester. I'm in my third semester, with one more to go; I'll graduate with and Associates Degree 15 months after I started. Since it's an accredited degree-granting school, you have to take gen. ed. classes like English, math, psych, etc., but I was able to transfer those from my first crack at college. For that tuition I get as many classes as I can cram into a semester (I'm taking 5, have taken as many as 6), though I hear they are now limiting new students to 6. Some industrious folk were taking 12 classes (10 hours a day, six days a week)and finishing in 2 semesters.

As for supplies, the school sells a kit (including two sets of jackets, checked pants, hats, aprons and neckerchief that nobody wears) for the rip-off price of $1,200. Comes with 10" French, boning, utility, paring, bird-beak (all a really cheap off brand), along with pastry bags and tips, measuring cups and spoons, tongs, etc. etc., all in a rolling suitcase-type of case. When I bought my kit 7 months ago for only $990, the French and paring knives were Henkel Professional S and the rest were cheap. I priced it out on the net, buying good equipment, and the whole list came to about $600. Then there are books, which run about $70 per class, though all the cooking and baking classes use the same two Wayne Gisslen texts.

By Flattop (Flattop) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 10:18 am: Edit

Ooops forgot the tuition it runs about $2000 a semester for 15 credit hours, including fees and health insurance. Add another $200 to $500 for books depending on the subjects.

We do have to buy a chefs coat and checks, touqe, a neckerchief, and some aprons. but those are purchased through Chefs Direct not the school. They do try to keep the cost to the student as low as posible. Lots of funds are raised to buy equiptment and supplies. They also raised about $75K for scholarships for this year.

Good luck of finding some scholarships Steve, you need them!

By Corey (Corey) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 10:18 am: Edit

wow, my college was 225.00 per course plus 350.00
for tools and uniforms and like 200.00 more for books.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 12:20 pm: Edit

SAD, SAD, SAD, These schools charging these astronomical prices only want to pay instructors 35K a year!!!!!!
I always get asked, why do you work for the public school system? You could be working at J & W, Culinary Arts Institute, Orlando Culinary Academy!
TRUE! the only thing is they don't pay! On top of that they make you and your students do all these functions to benefit their pockets!
Of course it's experience for the kids and OT for the Chef Instructor but, this is why I got out of industry, I did not want to deal with the hectic pace any more!

To you students at those overpriced schools, you realize you can take the same general education classes at a local community college and only pay a tenth of the cost and, your program has to accept the classes if they are accredited by any school accrediting body. (Not the ACF)
Unless your young ego keeps you from attending those lowly schools.
Another thing is, look at your local Vocational programs, for example my program allows students to take an advanced placement test at local universities and they get placed on a fast track program after completing my program with a "B" average...savings...17K a year in J & W's case!!!!

There is a saying, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!
This is true but, now you might just be educated and bankrupt at the end of your schooling!!!

Look and choose wisely guys, there's plenty of free $$$$ out there for the asking by filling out paper work, take advantage of it!!!!!
Apply for everything, worse they can say is No!
They usually say Yes!!!

By Steve9389 (Steve9389) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Right you are, Manny. I actually looked at community colleges first, but the one closest to my house had a spackled-together foodservice program with one ramshackle kitchen and only three culinary classes. The two really good CC programs are each more than an hour and a half away. At least I'm taking nutrition and a couple of other classes at the local CC and transferring them to save me a whole semester's tuition.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 01:56 pm: Edit

GOod deal!

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 06:37 pm: Edit

thanks guys for giving me an idea on what you pay.
if it goes, i'll charge something in between those prices. My instructor will be a certified
chef, with a strong back ground in pastry and baking, or is willing to learn as he goes with me looking over his shoulder. you see, i just want to have the tuition cost off set the labor cost. all students will also work the small dinning room so they can learn what thats like, and i'll bring an outside person in to teach about wine.
besides myself in the actual production shop, i'll have an asst., that way i can bounce from class to shop to dinning to phone to ass kissing to smoking to going crazy!
i'll supply the clothes, knives and feed everyone at a chefs table. yes there will be special events were people will get paid, and catering, private parties, ect. If students want to get into compitition they will do so on their own time, but will be able to use the class, shop for the stuff, and the teacher will be expected to help them out. oh and if i can swing it, small bonus(sp) will be payed to all full time help on a quarter or half year deal.
happy empolyee's are someone you don't have to worry about.
it's going to be a real bear putting these figures together and i have a feeling the insurance is going to be sky high.
thanks again...............................

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 08:07 pm: Edit


At the CCA, we had Norm Robey, from the Wine Spectator, in to teach wine. He was there one week per month and that cut costs considerably for the school. You might think about something like that; it could help a lot and people are always impressed by big names (customers and students).

By Steve9389 (Steve9389) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 09:41 pm: Edit

That's one thing we don't have at my school that I really miss -- a wine and spirits class. Good for you for having that, Spike.

By Flattop (Flattop) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 10:46 pm: Edit

I wasn't too happy about have to take a "whine" class but I have to admit I learned a great deal about it and began to like the stuff by the end of the semester. I'm really looking forward to beer brewing this semester.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 06:47 pm: Edit

ok guys, please tell me what ya liked and dis-liked about your schools.
what was the chef student ratio?
what was lacking and what was too much?
how was the food you got to work with?
did they teach you any fruit carving?
any classic's anything?
did they have students make all the sauces?, or just the mother sauces?
I would like to keep the ratio down between instructor and student.
did they run a line so students could learn real life working conditions?
I know its a lot to ask, but it would help a lot in setting up what I'd like to see get taught.
let me know, and this is open to anyone not just the students today.

By Steve9389 (Steve9389) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Spike, you're asking for another long post ...

Over the past seven months I have become convinced that instructors make the school. They can overcome crappy or nonexistent ingredients (which we suffer through), administrative incompetence (and lots of it), lousy or insufficient equipment (still frustrating but they're working on it) and a disturbing number of students who really don't give a crap. Our instructors are experienced, knowlegable and supremely dedicated. They care, and that matters a lot.

I've had chef-student ratios ranging from 9:1 to 25:1. The latter works fine, as long as you've got a chef who actually knows how to teach and enough equipment and burner space so everybody can get their work done in the time allotted. I mentioned I wish we had a wine class. Other than that I'm pretty happy with the curriculum; it would be nice to have more time for everything, but then again I don't want to be in school forever. One thing I like is that whether you're in culinary or pastry, you are required to take four classes in the other discipline. First, this has shown me I like pastry much more than I ever thought I would. Second, I have a lot more respect for the other side than do many of the chefs -- culinary and pastry -- I've talked to.

The food we work with is crap. Our beef, for example, is select at best and often commercial (especially our tenderloin -- after you trim the fat and silverskin, there's barely anything left). We cook with boxed Franzia wine that leaves a horrible taste even when it's cooked au sec, and all of our cream has gelatin in it. Often our chefs don't get what they order for our classes (we did veal tonight in Meats and we didn't get the chops we asked for, only pre-fabricated scallopini and a round to fabricate). I still learn to cook with the junk we have to work with, but I do think I miss out a bit.

We don't really do fruit carving, but we do learn ice carving in Garde Manger. What a blast! The curriculum is rooted in classic French, with lots of detours. I can make all the mother sauces from memory, but I haven't made one since I was tested on them in Soups and Sauces; we focus much more on things like pan sauces and reductions.

One of my big complaints is that we don't get enough production experience. In our last semester, we can choose to work in the school cafe or to extern outside of school. I'm externing. In the cafe 15 students handle 50 covers. That's not real life. The place where I'm externing this summer has 300 seats and they turn it twice on an average weekend night and FIVE TIMES on Mother's Day and Father's Day. With five people in the kitchen. That's more like it. I recently re-read Michael Ruhlman's The Making of a Chef, the story of his time at CIA. I realized that he learned pretty much the same stuff as I did; the only difference was that he was cooking for real people almost from day one.

Anything else?

By Flattop (Flattop) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 02:41 am: Edit

I'm glad that I reponded to this before I really started drinking. Cause I if you haven't notice have been displeased with much of what we do. My main complaint is that we have no chef of our own on staff. Those that we do have are part timers. Nice thing about that is they don't care if they play by the rules. They tend to try to teach instead of using the students as paying labor. Our bake shop chef is hell bent to teach us as much as he can.

The kitchen 1 & 2 classes were/ are a joke. They are not taught a chef or by a person with that much culinary skill IMHO. Nice enough guy, but he doesn't know how to teach in the kitchen. His other classes are very good: Wines, Beers and Spirits. He's too distracted by doing other things being head of our the restaurant and culinary programs.

We learned next to nothing in kitchen 1.We send less then an hour on knife skills. I was the only student who had actually made beef, chicken and fish stock and all of the mother sauces. All after hours for an event. I have learned more here then I have at school.

The ratio has been about about 14-1.

We do fruit carving and some ice carving in Garde Manger depending on who's teaching it. I haven't taken it yet nor will I.

I'm not gonna comment on the product we get to work with because.....well you know about the flour. Still just as in real life you sometimes have to make do with less then you really wanted so that may be a plus.

I agree with Steve about the production experience. We as students need it more than anything. I learn best by doing and I believe that in this career field you have to have working knowledge as well as theory.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 11:45 am: Edit

Spike, teach the basics. Some of these guys are complaining about working with crap, TRUE, even in my school. I tell the kids, don't get hung uup on the product, LEARN THE TECHNIQUES!
Schools can't afford prime meats, for the $$$ they get for the food they don't even recoup cost!
Remember, when equipping a kitchen everyone wants the "latest technologies"...BS, how many kitchens have the latest technology around? Most are equipped with the basics and that's what you should get. Our pastry program bought a sheeter, that thing has been used twice in 4 years!!!!!
Technology is fine and dandy but, when it breaks down it takes a while to get fixed, find parts....ect.
We ara having that problem with a vacuum seal machine, the digital pad keeps dying and no one can figure out why?
Mirepoix, Stocks, dice, slice, grill, sautee, simmer, how many ounces in a pound...a cup, the difference between an fluid ounce and an ounce, multiple uses of packaged products!!! Oh yea! you have to teach them reading and writing in between also!!

By Corey (Corey) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 02:40 pm: Edit

reading, writing and arithmatic?
wow, must be high school grads...

By Flattop (Flattop) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 05:37 pm: Edit

ChefManny is right about focusing on the basics. I learned next to nothing because of the lack of focus on the basics. I went in expecting to spend a day or so just on knife skills. We did about 2 hours if you count the video. I really expected to learn the very basics in both of the kitchen production classes, then more later in other classes. I know that because I lack basic skills that I will not be able to master more advance techniques without stepping backwards and teaching myself these skills.

By Corey (Corey) on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 08:20 pm: Edit

One of my first teachers was wierd, a few hours of basics, then he says tomorrow we each get to make a full entree on our own. my first was salisbury steak. our textbook was gisslen's Professional Cooking 3th edition. thank God his textbooks go thru every little point and procedure. And the chef was a big hotel chef out here in charge of a major restaurant in it. The worst thing I hated was drawing platings after every lesson, all I had was crayons.

By Ladycake (Ladycake) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 11:17 am: Edit

We had new, terrific equipment and the best ingredients. Demo and production classes (with 5 students to prepare each item - not realistic) and a student to chef ratio of 25 to 1. Appropriate when the 25 was broken down into groups of five for production. The whole thing was well thought out and worked effectively.

My favorite? Taste class. We had varieties of rice, varieties of beans, herbs, cheeses, breads, grains, and other items that are frequently overlooked, to compare. They were cooked with salt only and tasted alone for comparison. A valuable lesson!

We did get fruit carving, and other Garde Manger displays for large Thursday and Friday buffets that were very popular. It gave us some good experience with that sort of thing.

Production was done as freshmen for the student cafeteria, as sophmores for the brasserie, as juniors for the lunch in the main dining room, and as seniors for dinner in the main dining room. We also served in each location in different semesters.

Lots of classics. We made stocks and mother sauces, constantly. We got to play around with things like sorbets, at our discretion, but sauces were serious and constant. Many small sauces and some pan sauces.

We had one week of several ethnic cuisines, taught by outside chefs, brought in for the occasion.

The main thing I didn't like was that 5 students were put on each project. As a result, each student didn't get to sink or swim, but this was minor in light of the learning that was going on.

Hope this helps!

By Corey (Corey) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:06 pm: Edit

I hated the ID the spice lesson the most.
taste, smell, feel, RUFF...

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit

thanks to everyone, this is very helpful if this thing takes off.
now if i can only remember to buy crayons!

By Corey (Corey) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 01:56 pm: Edit

Also, try your local brewers supply too. if you have one, we have home brewers supply out here.
I've used thier fresh yeasts for baking and brewing. Yeast! the friendly bacteria. BELCH!

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 09:57 pm: Edit

spoken like a true chef!

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 10:21 pm: Edit

so if i hired a Ex. Certified Chef, charged somewhere between $1000. and $2500. with a big stack of books(3-5) and chefs jacket, pants, and your basic tools...french, paring, boning, and maybe a couple others, lockers, and a job that teaches real life situations (with pay), does that sound to you guys???
Plus, I would be teaching some of the pastry courses myself, and so would my asst., so the chef-student ratio would be 1-(10,12) or on some days 3-(10,12).
I would bring in people to teach sugar work, wine and other booze stuff and some other crap.
does that sound good???
what else do I need?

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 10:23 pm: Edit

oh and some of the classes would be filmed so the students could get those too

By Steve9389 (Steve9389) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 11:29 pm: Edit

With pay? Tell me where and when to show up.

Seriously, though, Spike, for all the bitching I do about the quality of our ingredients and equipment, it's not cheap to run a school like this (insurance alone, with all those sharp knives and open flames, has got to be a killer). Do those numbers work?

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 05:57 am: Edit

Legalized slavery, I think that's what J & W calls it!
Wh y do you think they buy all the hotels they do, they have free labor in intenrs!!!!

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 09:54 am: Edit

Spike, you need a C.C.E a Certified Culinary Educator perferably a CEC with a CCE.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Tim, thats what I'd like to get, one of those guys.
Unless of course I find someone who is GREAT and then I won't worry about it.
When all is said and done I don't really need to make this program so it's a credit coarse.
What I need to do is build it so it's a class and a apprenticeship all in one.
I do want a CEC I think thats important if the program is going to have any credibility.
Pulling from the local pool of CEC's to come in and teach this or that will help get the word out too. Plus it will give my Chef-Instrutor some time off.
Steve, I don't have any plans on this becoming a money maker by itself. But when you work it with a Pastry/Bakery/Cafe' with GOOD food at affordable prices, and with all the speciality products, cakes, ect... and catering then I think there may be a chance where it could break even.
MANNY!!!!, there's no more slavery! Kids in the field today wouldn't last a month if they went through what we did. The beatings, the pots traveling at high speed until it hit your head, then coming to a dead stop. LOL! Maybe some would,uh?
I'm thinking of class in the mornings, where all the prep would be done along with what needs to be finished, soups, ect. then have the students rotate every other day who works the lunch and dinner shifts. No lunch or dinner on Sunday, just baked goods and the cafe closed on Mondays, but not class. The best students would become the head cooks or even the Sous on each shift, lunch and dinner.
Next thing,...I want to buy a lighthouse and start a bed and breakfast!

By Flattop (Flattop) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 04:25 pm: Edit

If the students are told upfront what to expect and everything is used as learning experiance, I think you could do well. I like what you are talking about that's for sure. Hell I'd even consider a move if you had it up and running.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:59 pm: Edit

reading, writing and arithmatic?
wow, must be high school grads...
Corey..............I just read this again, thats funny!!!

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