|By Campari (Campari) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 01:08 pm: Edit|
Does anyone have a good recipe for larger volume pie dough, 10#? I have a problem with shrinking, falling down the sides of the pan during par baking.
Cost is not a concern for ingrediants.
|By Pastrycrew (Pastrycrew) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 04:10 pm: Edit|
Ingredients Amount Amount Metric
Butter, Cold 3 # 6 oz 1,531 g
Cake Flour 2 # 12 oz 1,247 g
Bread Flour 1 # 12 oz 794 g
Water, ICE COLD 20-21 oz 567-595 ml
Salt 1 ½ oz 43 g
Cube the butter into small pieces.
Dissolve the salt into 10 ounces of the water, use this first, the remaining 10-11 ounces are needed for the dough. Adjust the consistency as needed.
In the mixing bowl with paddle, add the flours and 1# 8oz of the butter. Mix on slow speed until the mixture resembles a very fine struessel or almond meal. Add in the rest of the butter and mix until there are walnut sized pieces of butter remaining.
Pour in the salted water, then most of the remaining water. Mix, add more water if needed to bring the dough together.
|By Foodtech (Foodtech) on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 09:18 pm: Edit|
Good advice, and formulation from pastycrew. Two things minimize mix, (no gluten devevlopment). If you have a cooler, retard the dough overnite, and shrink will go away
|By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit|
doesn't poking holes in the bottom of the crust before blind baking prevent the "falling down the sides" during baking?
|By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 09:23 pm: Edit|
NO, NO, NO...............
lets go over this ONE LAST TIME.
3 lbs. flour
2 lbs. shortening
1 lb. ice water (thats a pint for you people in Flor-e-da )
Rub the flour and shotening together until a course meal is formed. WITH YOUR HANDS
then add your water.
mix until all water is gone and only mix gently.
AGAIN, WITH YOUR HANDS
put in fridge for 30 mins.
bring out and roll dough, starting from the center of your dough ball, outward.
one roll away from you.
one roll towards you.
turn 180 and repeat both rolls.
then turn dough 45 degrees and repeat both rolls.
then 45 degrees again and repeat both rolls.
there, your done!, stick the prick in a pan and put in fridge for 10 min.
take out, put another pan on top of the dough and turn upside down onto sheet pan.
bake or pre-bake, what ever your needs are.
you can take a faulk and prick it, about 4-5 times.
(roll out dough in the shape of a stop sign)
dough fit for a King, or Queen if your in Manny's hood'.
|By Scott123 (Scott123) on Friday, September 03, 2004 - 10:49 pm: Edit|
Bread flour in a pie crust?!?! And cake flour?!?! Have you ever tasted cake flour by itself? I have, and let me tell you, unless you're baking something that HAS to be pure white, you don't go near it. You're making pastry, here. Would pastry flour be THAT out of place?
Chefspike, although shortening based pie crust doughs are about a thousand times easier to work with and will usually produce a flakier crust, the flavor you get from an all butter crust is unsurpassed. Because shortening melts a few degrees above body temperature, it's mouthfeel is less than ideal, not to mention the havoc it wreaks on your arteries.
Snuffaluff, two things increase the chances of shrinkage (I just got out of the shower, really! )
1. Gluten development (as previously mentioned). A low protein pastry flour is your best defense. In addition, it's essential to mix/handle the dough as little as possible as well as allowing the dough to rest between all phases.
2. Stretching the dough into place. Always lift and gently place the dough into the pan, not pull the dough to fit. If you pull the dough, the crust will pull back when it cooks.
|By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:35 am: Edit|
"it's essential to mix/handle the dough as little as possible "
this is true......................
"allowing the dough to rest between all phases"
i mentioned that, didn't I?
one rest, after its together.
one rest before you bake.
"A low protein pastry flour is your best"
give me a break!
|By Cvincolorado (Cvincolorado) on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 02:13 am: Edit|
I worked for a restaurant owner a while back that would not let me order all different kinds of flour and I got used to using good ole all purpose flour for everything. I bake picture perfect bread every night with this and not bread flour. I also make perfect pie crusts without having to buy pastry flour. As far as shortening goes. I don't think a customer ordering a piece of apple pie after a rack of lamb or elk chop entree is too concerned about how much shortening is in the crust. Their biggest concern is that the crust is nice and flaky and shortening is the answer for me.
|By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 09:03 am: Edit|
I was just doing a seminar with Keith Keogh (find out who that is, that's you homework for today)!....and he was doing some research on food pictures, ads, presentations...etc from the "50's and '60's. It was uncanny how all those things are showing up today in all the expensive, yet poorly instructional cooking schools!...which I am sure you are either attending or recently graduated and made you a CMPC! (In your mind)
Techniques from those days are also making a resurrection in Culinary competitions today!
Just to correct your food science which is probaly limited to Alton Brown, not all protein is glutten, as a matter of fact there is very little protein in flour (approx. 10% avg.), far less then starches. There are many other factors that contribute to the properties and maturity of the flours, including but not limited to, gaseous chlorine, chlorine dioxide gas, nitrosyl chloride, chlorine, acetone peroxide, and azodicaronamide.
As per shortnening wreaking havoc on the arteries, butter does not?????
(message edited but tried to save the good stuff)
|By George (George) on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 03:00 pm: Edit|
Note: I tried to clean this thread up and keep the good stuff.
Lets all try to be civil here, please.