Please don't attack me with this question!! I am BRAND NEW to this idea. I live in an area where it is very popular to take a full meal to someones home when they have a new baby, move into a new home, have a sick family member, etc. My idea was to start a business where I prepare a meal for a single family and deliver it to them. I do not think this would be considered a catering company since it would be a meal for one family and I would only do several (hopefully) a week. Am I off base with this idea or would I be doing something (like previously referred)illegal. Again, I am naive on the whole subject???? Any advice. Thanks

By Sam (Sam) on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 02:26 am: Edit

dear bpine, anytime you prepare food stuffs and the like for resale to the public, you are in the food service establishment business, or some facet of it.....your service could be called an industry term used today "HMR...Home Meal Replacement" or there are those who prepare foods for a family for an entire week at the clients home, those could be called personal chefs...if you prepare the food in a client's home, purchasing all foods for that particular home, not using your personal kitchen for storage, preprep or preparation, then you could be a personal chef...but in no way can you prepare food for resale to the public in an un-approved, unlicensed facility.....now some locales allow you to license someplace on your private residence for that, but most do not...sam sears, cec

By Panini (Panini) on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 11:26 am: Edit

bpine
Your idea is an interesting one. Don't let us scare you away from a good idea. There are probably plenty of kitchen spaces to rent in your area. Chect it out. You will probably only have to have some type of food handlers permit and maybe a little lia. ins.
There might also be a restaurant that does dinner that might let you use their kitchen in the AM. You can receive all the information you need from your local health dept. or from your local Chef's Association.
Good luck
panini

By CaterGreat on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 05:58 pm: Edit

bpine:

I am probably the most fanatical anti-illegal caterer person who posts here. I don't attack you either for sharing such a great idea.

One problem with your idea is the last minute nature of your business venture. Home Meal Replacement services would be the best vehicle for your idea. For that, you really need a shop. You need to have a store front and a place people can come pick up such items or you can deliver.

Sam is correct, ther is no way for you to do this from your home without a permit. YOu will spend as much or more getting your home ready for such a permit.

Thanks for having the courage to swim with the sharks and post here. lol..

CaterGreat

By martin on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 01:58 pm: Edit

Part 1:
All,
I believe that at one time I fell into the bracket of "illegal catering"... if one wants to take what is posted here at "face value" of what an "illegal caterer" is. I did not set out to do anything illegal. I was just doing what folks wanted me to do and that was to cook for them. Making a living at it was the furtherest thing from my mind. I guess by the post here that no one else had such meek beginnings. All certified Chefs...6 figure incomes...all successful businessmen...never did anything in the way of "illegal catering". Well, I'm sorry I just don't buy it. "let he that hath not sinned cast the first stone"...I don't hear no stone casting.

Martin

By martin on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Part 2:
All,
When do you stop being illegal and begin being legal? When your registered with the state? When you start paying state taxes? When you go from rental kitchen to owning your own? When????
I believe in free enterprise. If you can make a better mousetrap than go for it...If you can cater better than I...more power to you...
If you have established yourself as the caterer of choice than you should not be worried about the little guy maybe starting out "illegally" "feeling the waters" if you will. I believe it was Carl who said..."5 years"...Make it or break it". I don't have the time to worry about the mom and pop's of the world scrounging around for the nickle and dime catering jobs...someone has to do it.

Martin

By martin on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 02:01 pm: Edit

Part 3:
All,
When you have developed your clientele and word of mouth takes over you know which jobs to take and which ones to leave behind for the scrounging. I was once a scrounger and proud of it. I would recommend it to anyone who has the stamina to stick with it and make it work.
Only a entrepeneur not afraid to take the risk involved with catering will come through in the end. The mom and pops out here undercutting prices learn very quickly that the work involved with catering a reception or luncheon does not always warrant the low prices charged and become disillusioned and quit. I did not quit. I stuck with it. Became licensed because I wanted to do more and still going strong. The money is fine but has always been secondary to preparing that meal knowing that folks walk away with a smile on their face and knowing that you put it there!

Martin

By Panini (Panini) on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Martin,
Well said. The only thing I have a problem with is dabbling, test the waters, etc.
THIS PROFESSION IS NOT A HOBBY!!!!!!!!!!
They won't let you into a health facility to take care of patients, charge less, just to see if you like it.
You can't hang an accountants shingle and dabble in tax refunds to test the waters.
It's all a bunch of Cr-p!
Homemakers need to stay at home or gain experience. I know more wedding consultants/cocordinators, their only experience is they have attended a wedding or two.
Why can every Tom, Dick and Harriette jump into this field without experience, credibility,
legalization, or culinary/sanitation training?PLEASE TELL ME THIS MARTIN. IF YOU HAVE AN ANSWER THAN INCLUDE WHY OUR PROFESSION IS SO PRIMITIVE, ANTIQUATED, AND UNRESPECTED.
I started legal and will always be legal. I take issue with your alligations. The catering companies you talk of are a dime a dozen with one one every corner. Whether their upscale or not the bad one give the industry a bad name and are a good catalist for our clients to accept mediocricy.
just my two cents,
panini

By W.DeBord on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 04:36 pm: Edit

WOW! You hit some really important points Panini!

If that smile on your customers face doesn't help go toward your mortgage payment your in the profession of being a charity worker or perhaps that smile is on their face because they know they ripped you off. Charity is wonderful but in the process your hurting your future and mine.
Look at a bigger picture. You belong to the bigger social picture than your aware of. When you don't pay your debt that gets passed on the me and other consumers. When you cheat on your taxes it hurts my school distict and raises my taxes when their isn't funding.

A lot of little fish (swimming around saying "no one will notice me")eat enough to equal the big fish.

You don't believe in the value of laws, great!?...kids learn by example, I hope you don't live close to me and don't reproduce!

By Catergreat (Catergreat) on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Martin, Congratulations on becoming legal.. I will answer your questions from a legal standpoint. A caterer becomes legal when they get a foodservice permit, business licenses, pay sales tax, and have liability insurance. Without all of those, you are not legal.
------------------------------------------
From Martin,
"I did not set out to do anything illegal. I was just doing what folks wanted me to do and that was to cook for them. Making a living at it was the furtherest thing from my mind. "
--------------------------------------------
Now that is silly, you were doing what folks want you to do. Did those folks know that you were putting their life's savings at risk? As an illegal, if someone got sick or died, the client would be financially responsible! You were a prostitute, basically.

By Catergreat (Catergreat) on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 06:11 pm: Edit

From Martin:
"I guess by the post here that no one else had such meek beginnings. All certified Chefs...6 figure incomes...all successful businessmen...never did anything in the way of "illegal catering". Well, I'm sorry I just don't buy it. "let he that hath not sinned cast the first stone"...I don't hear no stone casting"
--------------------------------------------
Who are you, Jesus?? I had a meek beginning. We all have worked to our success. None of us started at the top. I can't speak for others, but I have never done business illegally. Now, pucker up and kiss this stone coming at you....!
CaterGreat

By Catergreat (Catergreat) on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 07:38 pm: Edit

From Martin:
"If you have established yourself as the caterer of choice than you should not be worried about the little guy maybe starting out "illegally" "feeling the waters" if you will. I believe it was Carl who said..."5 years"...Make it or break it". I don't have the time to worry about the mom and pop's of the world scrounging around for the nickle and dime catering jobs...someone has to do it."
--------------------------------------------
I am not worried about them competively as individuals, but as an industry of illegals, they do take money out of my pocket. They are basically "pests" Pests need to be squashed. It was I who said it takes approx. 5 years to firmly establish a catering biz., What's your point?

No, Someone doesn't have to do it. The public needs to pay professionals their price or go to McDonalds and pick up value meals or order in pizza.

I am MAKING time to put big dent into the illegal catering field. I owe this to my industry. I have no respect for any catering association that does not have this as a priority!!

By Josie Willis on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 08:29 pm: Edit

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but perhaps a kind person can answer my question.

I have to do Pork Ribs for a party this weekend. For about 20 people. That's not really
something I am familiar with, but, how hard can it be.

Having the choice would you BBQ or Roast???

By Sam (Sam) on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 08:34 pm: Edit

I too want to put in my two cents worth, I am a certified executive chef, working on my master chef, myself & my company make a 6 figure income and I like carl (who makes seven figures I heard, LOL), have never done any catering work illegal...I, like most, put my money where my mouth is, and every other dime I could beg, borrow & steal, and worked d*mn hard to pay off my debts and make a tidy profit and build a respected & enviable business in my field.....so as carl has stated, I don't worry about the illegal caterer alone & by themselves, but as a collective, they disrupt the order of business...sam sears

By Catergreat (Catergreat) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 08:20 am: Edit

From Josie Willis:
"I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but perhaps a kind person can answer my question.

I have to do Pork Ribs for a party this weekend. For about 20 people. That's not really
something I am familiar with, but, how hard can it be."
-----------------------------------------------
You are correct, this is not the right forum, you should click on Start a New Conversation.

Anyways, you shouldn't say how hard can it be, you should say how "tough" can it be. It can be very tough if not prepared correctly.

I personally would smoke the ribs in my smoker. Here is what you should do. Rub ribs with a good commercial rib rub, let set in refrigerator over night. Next day, four + hours before needed, Preheat oven to 400. Roast ribs for about 20 minutes at 400, reduce heat to 225 and cook another hour. Spray ribs with Apple Juice and wrap in foil, cook for 2 more hours at 225. Take out ribs, set temp to 325, Remove from foil, carefully as they may be falling off the bone, drizzle your favorite bbq sauce over the ribs and return to oven for about 10 minutes.....

Watch out should your tongue slap your brains out....

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 08:35 am: Edit

who are you guys kidding about not doing anything illegal????? If a customer came to you with 100K in a briefcase to pay for a party I am sure you would all go running down to the post office to see if his face was in the most wanted in USA, right?
BS, you'd take that $$$ right to where you keep the $$$ you do not want the IRS to know about. Let me see...........you do not do that either right??? hehehe!!!
I guess it's just me living in this cash rich, drug lord rich S. FL..................right!!!
I had a catering business for 6 years and never had insurance, the insurance agent told me....don't bother getting (liability)insurance because if you file a claim and you do not follow the letter of the law to a T, they will not pay the claim. In the 6 years I never had a problem.
Think about it, everyone has done something illegal at one point or another, if you bought food at your local grocer, that is illegal. You are supposed to buy food from USDA approved sources only according to most local codes. Do you know how much it costs to get USDA approval?
Well, gotta go...another suitcase of $$$ to hide under the bed.

By Debord (Debord) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 08:56 am: Edit

We didn't do background checks on our customers but only a fool takes a situation that stinks up front. We got audited through a client who seemed fine, he didn't pay cash, no he wrote us a business check. He got audited because he was doing things in his personal business that were illegal. The gov. then checked all of his "reciepts" and all the businesses he touched got checked out.

Ever been audited? Even when you have reciepts and do everything legally the gov. will find something to pick at you over. I'd never ever attempt to hide 1 penney of profits, it's not worth the hassle. You lose everytime you play with the gov.! They can and do make your life miserable!!!!!!!

Not everyone is making 6 figures or more....we certainly grossed that but that's not what we took home. Actually if you ever figured out what you make based on your hours it's like working at Mcdonalds'....do you ever turn your business off? Ten min. a month at a family gathering, maybe.

By Catergreat (Catergreat) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 10:57 am: Edit

Chefmanny wrote:
"I had a catering business for 6 years and never had insurance, the insurance agent told me....don't bother getting (liability)insurance because if you file a claim and you do not follow the letter of the law to a T, they will not pay the claim. In the 6 years I never had a problem."
---------------------------------------------
Well let me go cancel my insurance... yeah right. Whenever you guys make such ridiculous claims, you really hurt your creditability on this board....and I KNOW you have creditability, but others don't know who you are.. In the 6 years you WERE in business, you never had a problemm, that's great for you, take that luck to Vegas, but that is not how I choose to do business...

Chefmanny also wrote:
Think about it, everyone has done something illegal at one point or another, if you bought food at your local grocer, that is illegal. You are supposed to buy food from USDA approved sources only according to most local codes. Do you know how much it costs to get USDA approval?
------------------------------------------------

I admit that I have done some things that are not completely legal, but that doesn't mean that I should scrap my licenses and start operating an illegal business. Doing an occasional "thing" is not the same as operating illegally....Again, think before you speak, geez, come on Manny, you know better... :)

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 11:47 am: Edit

CaterGreat, I am not saying everyone should cancel their insurance or, scrap their ethical ways; what I am saying is that certain circumstances dictate certain actions. Like drinking and driving, 15 years ago it was no big deal until MADD got involved and made it a sin.
When I was in business, liability was not a big issue in our industry as it is today due to many issues including E-Coli, Mad Cow, Hoof and Mouth, rolling blackouts.....etc.
You have to use common sense in every aspect of your business....look in California now you think an ice cream maker is not going to have insurance with rolling blackouts; what is even more scary is to find an underwrtiter who will write the policy.
If you live in Timboktu and there is one restaurant and one movie theatre; chances are there is not going to be too much pressure on someone catering out of their home. Nor too much business to make it "legal".
Again, when I exagerate a point to make the point I am not urging anyone to do it or not do it it is expressly for that, to make the point.
Thanks

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Chefmanny,
Your doing a half a--ed job of taking your foot out of your mouth. Am I right? You teach? or do I have you confussed with somebody else?
I don't need half the sh-- I have, to do business, but I have it. If I took your attitude, I'm required to have 3 mill. dollars liability ins. to go on two of the properties here, should I go to the stairwell and throw myself down backwards to collect?
I am one of the proud people who can call you a BSer. I have and will not do anything under the table. On the other hand, I pay dearly to find any expense or write-off that I might be entitled to.
J

By Catergreat (Catergreat) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 06:59 pm: Edit

Chefmanny, with all due respect, I don't think you have a point. I really do not want to flame you, so don't take my bluntness wrong. Drinking and driving has always been a problem. MADD is fanatical and militant, but these people have lost loved ones to those who do not respect the law. DWI or DUI laws have been around many more years than mad, again, what is your point?

Most of what you have said, you have recanted, so I don't know what to say next. Your exaggeration to make a point is not getting through to me. Maybe I am thickskulled. I appreciate you input and hope to hear more from you.

Panini, you seem to have a problem with Chefmanny, is this an inside thing or something you can share with us...

By Sam (Sam) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 07:42 pm: Edit

well let me into this fray again, I personnaly own a FDA/USDA approved facility (because we used to package a product for resale....its not that big a deal to get approval) in my area, I can tell you that there is no restriction, repeat no restriction on food stuffs purchased at local grocery stores for resale, as long as those items are prepared in an approved facility, which most reputable supermarkets would not carry any suspect products.....we shop at a krogers at least 5 times a week, for items that I want to hand pick or don't want the $$$ tied up in excess inventory from purchasing case quantities, but only needing a little.....I'm not even trying to tell you the regs/statues that are in force in your area, just my state & county (of which the county is very strict)...sam sears, cec

By Josie Willis on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 08:42 pm: Edit

Thank You ChefManny for the advice on Ribs. I am a legal Caterer, just a bit green.

By Josie Willis on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Sorry Again, Thank you Catergreat...I will be going now.

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 10:13 pm: Edit

catergreat,
I have nothing going with Chef Manny, I have always made sure to read anything he had to input. He seems to be very knowledgeable and insiteful. His input on this subject floored me, It's almost as if he was trying to cause friction.Maybe there is something going on above us because he just came off as being lame and I don't believe that. I have respect for everybody here but won't hesitate to comment. I just wish I could type what I want to say. I can't express myself w/o my hands.
I'm sure I come off lame on a lot of things too.
later
PS. I also have a manufacturing license for my production kitchen FDA/USDA. Not to bad, just very strict about ingredient and labeling but about the same as local inspection.

By Andy on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 08:10 am: Edit

I had a good friend who is an illegal caterer, we were friends back when I did "some catering on the side" before I established my legal business. After I had my "legal business" for about a year, she called me up out of the blue(we had had a little tiff) and asked me if she could borrow my walkin refridge because she had a $20,000 job that she was doing for a local university. She would even rent it from me.(lucky me) I said NO. She said okay, I guess I have to go buy some coolers. I said okay and we never spoke again.
Well maybe the job wasn't really $20,000 but I am sure it was alot more $$ than the wedding and 2 parties that I was catering that day.
This girl has been catering for at least 10 years in my area (she is creative, talented, professional and organized)
She also was on the list at a local STATE park to do weddings at a beautiful pavillion.
So dont tell me that illegal caterers don't take a good chunk !!!!!
Andy

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 10:46 am: Edit

Guys calm down, this is a forum for differences of opinions, as well as lively conversation.
I know some business persons who do everything by the book, the majority do not. Whether or not you want to accept that, that is your choice. I know this is a fact in this area of the country because I did a research paper on it while working on my degree, now; the owner-operators could have been less then honest answering questions. Guys that work for chain who get bonuses said they would hold back posting invoices at the end of the month to get a bigger bonus check, they would avoid trash collection twice a week for the same reason. If I list all the things I had returned to me from big chain mgrs., mom & pop operations etc. it would surprise you I imagine, by the responses I hear from you. I respect and admire that you run your business the way you do but what I am saying is that that is not the norm in our industry. Yes it is getting better, at the cost of legit. operators like you guys.
Yes, I am a teacher but I am not one of those teachers who teaches "idealism" I tell the kids how real life is whether or not they like it, I want them to only go into this business if they are committed to it, if not you and I know they are wasting their time. By the way I have only been teaching 6 years, before that I did work in the field over 23 years. No, I do not have to worry about having my foot in my mouth or taking it out any more these days. Even negative comments inspire positive comments and views.
Thanks

By Catergreat (Catergreat) on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 06:21 pm: Edit

Thanks Chefmanny. I totally understand what you are saying. But, this is not a matter of ethics as much as legality. Agreed, we all don't follow all the rules, all the time. That doesnt mean we should scrap them all.

I strongly feel that you and the industry needs to discourage working without a permit, insurance or legal facility.

By Panini (Panini) on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 08:19 pm: Edit

Manny,
I appologise, I'm pretty passionate about this subject. You know everyone says that you don't worry about those who undercut you but, the fact remains that there are plenty out there and they do affect me. There seems to be nothing being done about and I certainly don't want anyone to encourage it. I don't have a problem speaking this way to you for I too have as many years in the industry. This is a forum and one should not take anything personally.
With all respect
Jeff

By linda on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 09:59 pm: Edit

can someone help me? having a picnic for about
175 people. i'm doing the rigatoni and the macaroni salad - will be having chicken, ham, etc..any help with how much macaroni i need for
both the dishes i am to make? thanks in advance!

By Debord (Debord) on Tuesday, June 19, 2001 - 08:07 am: Edit

Everything is all in proportion to how much other stuff you have and how big of eaters your group is? Macaroni is cheap, I cook by sight not pounds. If your salads are good they'll eat plenty, if their not, they hit your meats heavier.

Guessing in pounds (which isn't my thing) I'd say about 6 lbs of each (that's uncooked pasta). Half a bus box or two hotel pans of each should do.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Tuesday, June 19, 2001 - 08:26 am: Edit

Here is one for Carl at Catergreat..........

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, June 19, 2001 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Linda,
We usually figure 3-5 oz. per person for each salad.35-40 lbs. each? That's cooked and prepared weight. If you don't have cooked weights make a lb of dried pasta ,prepare, and weigh.
That's how I would do it, but we really are not caterers. Maybe Carl can help you more as Manny said.

By Catergreat (Catergreat) on Friday, June 22, 2001 - 09:03 am: Edit

1 oz of dry pasta yields 3 oz (vl) of cooked pasta. Figure 2.5 oz E.P of the pasta... add your ingredients to that....

The amount varies depending on what else is being served...

oh yeah, E.P. (edible portions)

By Donella Johnson on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 07:37 pm: Edit

I am condidering opening up a catering business.What do I need to get started.Also can I get started at home and then branch out.

By sam on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 10:16 pm: Edit

dear donella, you really need to re-read all these posts regarding home catering...in MOST areas of the country preparing food for resale to the public is an illegal activity in a residential setting.....in the areas that do allow catering from a private home, substantial renovation is most likely.....most areas require an health dept approved facility, plumbing, bldg & zoning, fire dept, electrical inspector approved, also. a minimal facility w/ minimal equipment & fixtures, will generally run $35-50K & UP......sam sears, cec

By L'hibou on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 07:22 am: Edit

Okay, I'm going to throw myself to the mercy of the sharks, and ask for your advice and opinion on my idea.
I've read enough times how being a good/great cook doesn't a caterer make, BUT... I have been hosting small (under 10 pax) gatherings, and medium-big (100 pax) gatherings in my home for the last 10 years, with only servers to help. I've had Ambassador's and ministers to my home, and more importantly (towards this intent) I've had GM's and F&B managers from The InterContinental Hotel, and The Hyatt Hotel telling me (perhaps in jest) what stiff competition I would be for them.

I live in a country where women are not allowed to work in public, and their are really no "laws" for or against home catering. We have a large population of male (and female) nurses who eat fast food 5-6 times a week, or live on tuna fish. I would like to set up some form of set meals (hopefully not Military style MRE's) from which they can choose for either pick up or delivery. Their would be a variety of daily choices, and menus would be "posted" a week in advance. Any ideas on how to go about this? Is it a feasible idea? What do I need to do to get started??
Thanks for your help

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 12:44 pm: Edit

Do exactly what you have done for the previous parties if they were so well received

By Carl on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 08:00 pm: Edit

I agree, they shouldn't allow women to work outside the home. With that said, I admire what you have done. As long as you are not breaking any laws, I would continue as you have. You have a very good idea that is referred to as HMR here, Home Meal Replacement. I would start with pick up only and decide later whether I could handle the delivery. Your location must be convenient to your clients. I do not know whether your home would be suitable for this, that is up to you. As long as you know how to cook, know the laws, and deal on a cash basis, you are on your way to great success.

Best of luck.

Carl