Archive through May 8, 2001

I was wondering if anyone has seen a connection between work in the culinary field and the onset of mild psychiatric disorders. In my career I have met many chefs suffering with problems such as depression, anxiety disorder, manic depression, etc. Has anyone else seen this phenomenon or can it be blamed on the personality types that tend to lead toward culinary careers.??

By I'm sure you guessed on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 01:16 pm: Edit

Not to sound sarcastic but you left out: alcoholism, addiction to drugs(not just illicit either), violent mood swings, bi-polarism, paranoia, and a collection of other moral decline. Guess what, THAT'S LIFE AND IT HAPPENS IN JUST ABOUT EVERY FIELD!! Now leave me alone while I wash down a couple ludes with this bottle of granmariner and then go throw pans at my theiving waitstaff.

By I'm sure you guessed on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 01:31 pm: Edit

I left out the most important correlation between the amount of time one has speent in the culinary field. One of two things happens to someone,(like myself), who has devoted the last 18 years, more than half, of their lives to this business. A)the person starts to take themselves and what they do way too seriuosly or B)the person develops a very sick and twisted sense of humor that can only be apprieciated by other such twisted individuals that have not fallen into the pitfalls of the type A chef. NUFF SAID, have fun, don't burn or cut yourself, and always cook your chicken to an internal temp of 165.

By TYPE B on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 04:55 pm: Edit

The field is full of type A's. It is a stressful job and a lot of time lines. The type A's spend most of their down time watching, critiqueing, cussing, and throwing things at type B's. The rest of their time is spent training type B's " not the field, but how to be type A's".
Check out most of the really fine and balanced chef's in the industry, not the media ones, and you will find that they are very respected type B's.

By Kidd (Kidd) on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 12:24 am: Edit

I don't know alot about the field,per se, but as a new guy who hasn't made my bones yet I can already see the inevitable. After work I automaticaly go and drink a few alcoholic beverages just to make myself feel good. I know that this is no remedy to the situation but I feel comfortable with the people I drink with. I have already come to the acceptance of alcoholism as one of my soon to be career inevitables. I don't know the full extent of my career yet but needless to say I can guess. I love IT. If I don't hear some bitching or the sound of my dishwasher busting out pots and pans I feel out of place. I think that I don't belong. I also know that anxiety runs high in our field, and that is to be expected. We work in a high maintenance industry. There are certain things that you can expect if you become a pro. One of those things is the fact that 65% of us will lose our minds. The other 45% will show that they have what it takes to get the job done no matter what the cost to them or anyone else. I may be speaking from a novice way of mind and I may be totally wrong but this is the theory that I am going to take with me when I continue my education this coming year. If I am wrong then god help me to get a grip on things. But I know that there are certain variables in this field. And these I can always know to count on 1) I will never have a friday or saturday off 2) I will never have a holiday off 3) There will always be someone that calls in i.e. diswasher(especially the one that quits on a busy saturday) 4) My orders won't show up on time (and god help them if their not there when I need them to be 5) and finally that I will work my ass of for my masters to make them succesful.
No offense to Type B, but there are not type a's and type b's to me. There are only the one's that are successful and the one's that are not. I want to be the the former. To me the latter is not someone that I want to be or even be associated with. Sorry to anyone that I offend. Thanks for your time Kidd

By W.DeBord on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 03:12 am: Edit

Unforunately I can't disagree with anything written before me. None of us are perfect in any field...but I sure have met alot of difficult people with the title Chef or Manager. Too much stress and isolation from the rest of society seems to deform even the once normal of us. I find solice on line instead of in a bottle, we all have to have something that understands our woes.

I sort of wish we had a union that looked out for us in regards to wages and hours. Pilots seem to have alot of problems too, but at least their well paid for their hours.

P.S. Kidd if your even remotely serious about alcholism. It's time to bail out NOW, what's the point in waiting?

By Kidd (Kidd) on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 03:38 am: Edit

I did not mean to say that I was a alcoholic myself but I do go and treat myself to a few drinks after a busy night. What I meant to say was that alcoholism runs in this line of work the same way as it does in familys. Sorry for the misunderstanding in my wording. And that I might as well get used to being around the ones that drink at work, (by the way I NEVER drink before or during my shift). I also have no intention of "bailing out".
Kidd

By Type B on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 05:27 am: Edit

Kidd,
I am talking about personalities. This is not something I made up. These are facts from reasearch. I have a feeling you are a type B, I bet you are pretty level headed at work. You probably put out fires very well. You know type B's make up a lot of the 65% you are talking about. They all don't end up on top, most turn to some sort of vice to relax because they hold a lot of stuff in.
An out of controll type A will never get the respect from his or her peesr to be suce3ssful.
Kidd, please pick a better vice than drinking!!!
I'm not knocking you at all, but there are a lot of healthy vices to get you through, gym, marshall arts, sex, golf,etc. Hey, ya know, one of the best vices from your type of work is to start working on a business plan to become one of the masters.

By I'm sure you guessed on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 09:53 am: Edit

A cocktail or seven after your shift is fine. Just don't let it turn into after every shift, Or during a shift, or during every shift. It was the durings that got me in trouble.

By chefmanny on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 11:49 am: Edit

You have to be a little crazy to get in this business! I remember an interview in my early years in the kitchen; the Chef said you know how to cook, I said Yes, of course and he proceeded to tell me since I knew how to cook what I would learn there was to get oral favors from the waitresses and do lines in the freezer. Naturally beign a young man, I said cool! and I did.
There are too many stories to tell, we used to drink beer from a stainless steel water pitcher and keep a glass of soda next to it in case the owner walked by, he would always ask if he could get us more soda, nobody ever took him up on it.
We'd do 2-3 8-balls on a Fri. or Sat. night out of a pie tin in the storeroom. Etc.1
The partying and the late nights are part of the business, you get out late and you have no choice, you party late. You just have to control it not let it control you. You go and party all night the night before you are off, not Fri. or Sat. night you'll die young if you do that.

By chefmanny on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 11:50 am: Edit

Pt. 2 of previous post

Eventually you find a job you settle into and make a descent wage and the hours are tolerable, you have to have a good staff, well trained. I always trained people to run the place as if I was not there, that way when I wasn't it would run as if I was there. Yes, it takes time but it does happen!

By chris on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 01:22 pm: Edit

we used to do shots of grandmariner out of those 3 0z ramekins. When the gm would see us we'd just say we where tasting the sauce. It seemed that there was a grandmariner sauce evry night as an appetizer, entree, or dessert special. I don't think any of the granny made it to the customers though.

By peachcreek on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 04:20 pm: Edit

I tell people I'm a cook, not a chef because I don't have a full-blown drinking problem yet.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"-Tom Waits.
And then there is the REAL problem in our industry: the cokeheads and cranksters that THINK they do everything better! Those people.......!

By winzerman on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 01:14 am: Edit

I've been cooking for the last 25 years and can appreciate what your all saying about the boozing and drugs but I found my way out of that and I'm able to keep doing this cause I'm not going to burn out. If I was still drinking I would most likely have burned out on this job along time ago. Life is easier to live sober.Not only that but my work is better.But in the final analysis I do agree there are alot of messed up people in this business. Peace

By ISYG on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 09:12 am: Edit

How true, I'm not sober yet, but nowadays I only drink on my day off. In the past my day off was my day not to drink. Good start though, feel a lot more organized. My staff liked me better drunk. They say I'm a happy drunk and a mean guy sober.

By George (George) on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 09:46 am: Edit

BTW substance abuse is not limited to our industry.

ALL high stress fields have similar problems, Police, EMS, Fire Departments, Stock Traders etc.

By W.DeBord on Friday, May 04, 2001 - 07:48 am: Edit

My secret to survival was leaving the hot side. Pastries have alot less stress since we aren't last minute.

Too many chefs put too much on themselfs! I think you have to share responsiblity with your staff. You can't protect yourself from getting fired by working 24 hours a day. When the day is done leave! Have a homelife, have other interests!

I have a drug addict in my life and I do understand the junk around it. ISYG don't take this wrong PLEASE but you might find that a drug like prozac or zoloft helful. Drugs and booze affect your brains dopamean (sound out)levels and often these people need medical drugs to balance out the REAL chemical imbalance they are left with after abuse. A mean sober guy is a sign of this.

By CRYSTALMARIE1 on Monday, May 07, 2001 - 09:53 am: Edit

I WAS LOOKING INTO GOING TO CULINARY SCHOOL AND YOU GUYS HAVE COMPLETELY TURNED ME OFF!! GET A LIFE, DON'T LET ANY JOB CONTROL THE WAY YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE.

By chefmanny on Monday, May 07, 2001 - 11:45 am: Edit

good move crystalmarie...........do you always believe everything you read? and are you that interested in the business that a mere few comments can change your career choice?
It's probably for the best, someone as tough as you would probably last a couple of hours with some of these chefs out there today!
Good luck, try basket weaving.

By chris and or ISYG on Monday, May 07, 2001 - 01:37 pm: Edit

W.
With some of the slackers entering this field a demanding sober guy is quite often mistaken for a mean sober guy. That was the point I was trying to make. Chefmanny you took the words right out of my mouth in regards to little miss crystal. I would have however suggested something along the lines of a coatchecker though.

By W.DeBord on Tuesday, May 08, 2001 - 08:00 am: Edit

Demanding is great by me I certainly can be, it's to be expected. When a female is in charge and a demanding sober girl they call her a B**** (and every other name in the book). That always has always frustrated me. I found it sooo hard being a female leading the kitchen. Think things stink at times being a white male leading the kitchen, you should try it being a 24 year old female......heck even at 40 it isn't any better.

A weak female shouldn't dream of cooking professionally......it's still a boys club and probably will be for many many more years. Besides CrystalMarie1 if you want to make money you'd do better waiting on the tables.

By JRRYAN on Tuesday, May 08, 2001 - 10:38 am: Edit

Crystalmarie,
How could you get to the point where you are using posts on a culinary message board to help you make career decisions? Anyone worth their salt in this business knows that this profession envelopes your whole life. I've been in the field for 13 years and this is my life. Weekends and Holiday are completely over-rated. I think that the kitchen provides structure, a palate for creativity and an on-going sense of accomplishment to me.
I'm personally glad that you made the decision not to enter my field. All of the major problems associated with this field stem to the fact that most people feel that they could just decide to be a chef one day and go to work the next. We will never get the respect we truely deserve until the general public is aware of the sacrafices that every chef in every kitchen goes through.
So, for all of you out there kicking your own butts everyday week in week out, SALUT!!

By peachcreek on Tuesday, May 08, 2001 - 12:28 pm: Edit

If you aren't crazy when you enter our field, you will be before you are finished. I believe that everyone has latent psychological disorders, waiting to manifest themselves at some time in our lives. I think that people entering foodservice underestimate the stress factor. Hey Chef Boyardee looks so happy on the label! And those guys on T.V. are having a great time! One would expect doctors and EMTs to have a high stress job, but cooks?

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, May 08, 2001 - 03:24 pm: Edit

W.DeBord,
The gender issue is getting smaller and smaller. "•••••" is a very kind word compared to the names that are thrown at a demanding sober guy,behind his back.
I'm not sure about all vices everyone seems to think they must have to handle the stress, we parteed when I was comming up, but we did it to unite not escape from what we were doing. I am a very demanding sober guy but I also know how to reduce the stress in the kitchen. Most of it falls back to organization and timing.I have to say though that I have changed, years ago in the food kitchens, if it was war, I would have been tagged "Killed By Friendly Fire".

By CRYSTALMARIE1 on Tuesday, May 08, 2001 - 04:09 pm: Edit

i want to go into this field because i thought i could be creative. its something i enjoy...you guys take no joy out of what you do. thats sad, if i go into this field i won't take myself so seriously. oh and by the way JRRYAN, i was on here doing research for my future career. jerk!

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, May 08, 2001 - 07:04 pm: Edit

CRYSTALMARIE1
Test the waters slowly. There is plenty of creative opportunities in the field.
This site is especially filled with posts that are more or less bi--h sessions.This site is actually equivilent to the local gin mill where chefs hang out after work,have boisterous opinions,complain,critique each others styles, with the occassional questions from ouitside.
I assume everyone that usually comes here would never tell you that hate what they are doing.
The biggest reward you take out of this work is joy, if it's your career. If it's just a job, that's another story.