My boss and I are at odds on this issue. He wants me to keep making standard size muffins that we are. I make them so they crown nicely. The different muffs are good, not award winning but tasty, the biggest complint that we get is that they look so small. I think that people now are looking for the texas sized muffs. Going around the area, we are the only bakery making the size we are. I've been wanting to go and get the large pans, but I need funding.

Does it make sense for me to argue that people now consider the large muff as your standard.

One thing that I've noticed about the larger muffins is that they are baked with only a slight crown, or no crown at all.

Your opinins would be appreciated.

Regards,

Matt

By jeee2 on Tuesday, August 17, 1999 - 11:39 pm: Edit

Personally? , I think huge muffins are not good .
I wouldn't want to eat half a poundcake for breakfast. They are too sweet and fatty and should be eaten in a sensible manner.
I think appealing to the publics gluttony will backfire as Americans learn how to eat(eventually)

Then you have to consider the food cost of the bigger size. If you chill the batter you can make a larger muffin in a regular pan, ours were just the right size with a huge head.

My brother increased the size of my apple scones to 9 oz !! , I talked him down to 4 oz and it was STILL hard to finish one, the customer isn't always right.

Anyhoo, I would look at the food cost first, methinks you could double the cost with little price increase and create a loser. If what you're doing is good it wouldn't be better just by making it bigger.

As for trends, ignore trends, quality isn't a fad.

Cheers, Gerard

By Mark G on Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 12:30 am: Edit

I have one caterer who asks for the big muffins raher than the smaller ones. She claims that her customers like the giant size but she also observes they rarely finish them. I've shown her the price difference but she wants 'em big with tops.

Mark G

By jeee2 on Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 09:00 am: Edit

Mark,

the fine art of diplomacy is letting them have it your way, I have no diplomacy and just say no.
If I let them define the product (wholesale customers) I'd be making chocolate croissant the size of footballs.
You've seen the croissants at Dunkin Donuts? they "think" thats what the customer wants .
But its a tricky game and the customer doesn't really want what they say they want.
No-one REALLY wants a giant pastry.
We really try to educate the idiots..uh public to the French phylosophy on food, "just a taste".
I'm sure I could make more money with huge portions but if all I wanted to do was make money I'd join my buddies in construction, they think I'm nuts working like this whilst they go away every weekend (whats a weekend?)

Regards, Gerard

By W.DeBord on Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 09:24 am: Edit

Can you test your market by making a few larger muffins without going into full production? How many businesses have disappeared because they did'nt keep up with the lastest trends? Whole industries have!
Yet, if you have the market who wants a reasonable sized muffin, keep them happy. Americans do not think like others they want bigger and more of everything. We wonder why we are so over weight.
Gerard you confuse me. In most of your responses you tell us how we can bake to keep a profit. I thought profit was a good thing? Now I'm thinking "change" is what you don't like. Although I have also seen business change their products to chase a trend and they too have gotten the axe. How about treading lightly in this market?

By jeee2 on Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 09:57 am: Edit

Change is good if it either makes things go easier or faster. We figgered we make more profit with "reasonably" sized items. If the portions are too big a lot of women will pass, but the same women will buy something that looks normal, the odd thing is they often buy 2, so they get the same amount but psychologically are more comfortable.
People will pay $3 for 2 normal muffins with fresh raspberries etc.
But more often they won't pay $3 for one big one.

We sold more eclairs once the size was reduced too. Theres a certain amount of silent resistance that you can only observe because the customer will never fess up out loud.

Cheers, Gerard

By Morgane on Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 12:40 pm: Edit

Matt,


Have you thought you making your regular size muffins just a bit bigger? It might satisfy your boss and you at the same time.


I have to agree with Gerard big muffin are awful I never buy but it seems it is the only available size since muffins became a fad. Stick with your regular muffin I am sure some people appreciate quality, I hope so anyway.


Morgane

By the sugar guy on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 03:38 pm: Edit

you cant satisfy american customers when it comes to size .
they have BIG EYES , and they are CHEAP !!!!!!!!!
they will spend their last penny on a biger house or a biger car but when it comes to a fine delecate croissant? they want it BIG BIG BIG.other wize they dont think they got a good deal...
but i will NEVER EVER under no condition will make my croissant heavier than 65 grams .ever. even if its the end of the world ...
oh yes , another thing , i like medium-small muffins , when they are nice and moist. i dont make any in my shop since its a french bakery (ever ordered pizza in a chinese restaurant? so dont come to my shop and ask for donuts or muffins , you aint gonna get`em...)
oh boy , am i stubborn ......

By d. on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 07:25 pm: Edit

Gerard, will muffins crown better if you chill the batter first? I always make the batter at the last minute --- we do regular sized muffins. In theory, wouldn't the leavening be decreased since the baking powder and baking soda(depending on the recipe)are already working once the batter is mixed?

By jeee2 on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 06:43 am: Edit

D,

They crown better because the batter will not melt out as fast when chilled.
You can use a bit more batter when cold because its not as liquid, theory in regards to BP only applies after a few days as the BP begins to expire. When I was making them I made 8 gallons of batter and used 2 or 3 gals daily.
On occasion when I ran out and had to use fresh batter they would run all over the pan onto the tray and have no head. I think you'd find this way to beat fresh batter.
Also folding frozen fruit into the batter helps keep it stiff til you can dollop it into the pans.
I sprinkled mine with regular granulated sugar, this dissolves and forms a nice shiny crust.

Regards, Gerard

By jeee2 on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 06:48 am: Edit

Sugar guy,

When I see oversized I suspect the baker has no confidence in the product and compensates by increasing the portion.

The problems I've seen with croissants is they overproof them and they end up with less lamination anyway. I wholesale a lot of croissant but won't sell them unbaked because I KNOW what they will do with them.

Regards, Gerard

By W.DeBord on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 08:06 am: Edit

I have never baked in volume, although I have made a volume of muffins over the years. Strangely enough I've never found a great almond poppyseed muffin recipe. I see them everywhere and am longing for a better than good recipe. Would anyone have one that they would consider excellent and be willing to share it?

By jeee2 on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 08:58 am: Edit

W.Debord,

All I made was one plain batter and added froz rasps or bluberries. One red, one blue , that was enough variety for me and I got fed of that too.

Variety makes efficient production hard to do.
Do they add poppy butter to the muffin mix or poppy seeds? something like that wouldn't appeal to me and I never bothered to make what I wouldn't buy.

Regards, Gerard

By Morgane on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 11:26 am: Edit

Gerard,


Try adding a bit of spice to the sugar you sprinkle on top of your muffin. I use nutmeg on the blueberry muffins. It's wonderful.


Morgane

By Matt (Matt) on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 03:20 pm: Edit

Gerard,

I agree with you that the size it too big for a normal person. I have a hugh appitait and I have trouble with one of those babies. As far as the batter being to rich and sweet, no, I've baked off some extra batter in loaf pans and it's good. Just right.

I'm going to buy a cheap pan and see how the numbers work out. Worst case I have a new cake pan.

Thanks for the response.

Matt

By Matt (Matt) on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 03:26 pm: Edit

W.DeBord:

Testing the market is what I would like to do. This is a tricky issue between me and the boss. usually, an new product has to be approved, costed and just wait for the hell of it before we can put it on the selves. It is a frustrating issue with me, but my boss makes some good points, too! He has been in business for 10 years (Mainly bread) and I must defer to his experience. It is his ass on the line. I would just like a little more freedom. Wouldn't we all :-)

By Matt (Matt) on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Morgane

I fill the pan to overflowing with chilled dough and they bake with a large cap. I'm just going to see how my batter bakes in the large pan and will go from there, but after reading these posts, I my just stop there. There are other new things that I want to introduce, maybe I'll spend more energy there.

Thanks,

Matt

By jeee2 on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Morgane,

>>Try adding a bit of spice to the sugar you sprinkle on top of your muffin. I use
nutmeg on the blueberry muffins. It's wonderful. >>

The French chick who works with me talked me into discontinuing the muffins, on their best day they are junk, I LIKE junk but its not what a french bakery should be doing.

Matt,
All muffins are too sweet and fatty, if they were less they'd be scones.

Cheers, Gerard

By Mike Henders (Mikeh) on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 05:28 pm: Edit

I don't understand consumers. The other day I pointed out that the packaged Hostess muffin (yuck!) my friend was eating had 600+ calories, nearly a day's serving of fat, and tastes like crap.

I know that a portion of American consumers are waking up to the wonders of artisan lean breads with thick chewy crusts, albeit that WonderBread is still the most popular brand (yuck again!). Are you guys and girls finding the same slow trend from junk to high-quality products in pastry and dessert sales?

By jeee2 on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Mike,

If you want to make money just bake junk, some of us are on a mission ..not sure if its worth it.

Cheers, Gerard

By Matt (Matt) on Sunday, August 22, 1999 - 01:03 am: Edit

Mike-

Regarding the artiesen breads We're trying to keep the faith over here in Upstate NY. We're finding that the use of the word artisen is being thrown around by these grocery store rip off bakeries. So far they haven't touched our custemer base. BUT...we must continue baking good bread....a problem with trained employees walking out so fast.

By Matt (Matt) on Sunday, August 22, 1999 - 01:04 am: Edit

Mike-

Regarding the artiesen breads We're trying to keep the faith over here in Upstate NY. We're finding that the use of the word artisen is being thrown around by these grocery store rip off bakeries. So far they haven't touched our custemer base. BUT...we must continue baking good bread....a problem with trained employees walking out so fast.

Matt

By Matt (Matt) on Sunday, August 22, 1999 - 01:10 am: Edit

Gerard-

"All muffins are too sweet and fatty, if they were less they'd be scones."

I hear ya. But the giant ones I've been tasting lately aren't muffins they are cakes. Mine are muffs plan and simple, sweet yes but not too. The large ones that I've been sampling are not only large, but they really are small cakes. You said it who wants to eat a half a pound cake for breakfast.

While I'm thinking of going to the large side, unless ordered(I won't) I'm not altering my formula. They are good quailty. For a muffin that is.

Cheers,
Matt

By makubo on Sunday, August 22, 1999 - 11:28 am: Edit

Who said you can never have too much of a good thing?
I like to think we are indeed on a mission, to educate, profilerate...and to make a living in the process. Not all the heathens can and will become converts, unless you can show them the immediate benefit of a smaller, leaner, better tasting product. Replace some of the shortening with yoghurt, moister, less fatty, but unfortunately shorter shelflife will be the result.Bake and give away some in mini size(using a petit four cup) the'll love it and will come back for some more... in the size you determine.

By Mark on Sunday, August 22, 1999 - 06:04 pm: Edit

In thinking about the "Monster" muffins I make for a catering client who doesn;t like the smaller onces I bake, I realize now that she is greatly overweight and it might be her own desire for large portions that makes her keep asking for these giant muffins. I'm not at the functions where they are served so I don't know if they are half eaten and then tossed or useful as a "complete" breakfast for her customers. This past week, I gave her some smaller ones as well as the big ones just to get a reaction from her. So far, none.

Mark

By Morgane on Monday, August 23, 1999 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Gerard,


... discontinuing the muffins, on their best day they are junk, I LIKE junk but its not what…


My customers like muffins and the ones I bake are not junk. I try to come out with the best possible products and make a healthy muffin. They are a nice alternative to the croissant and contain a lot less fat. In a era where people are more health conscious many will prefer them.


Morgane

By jeee2 on Monday, August 23, 1999 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Morgane,

They don't eat croissants every day in France like they try to do here, a muffin isn't exactly a great way to start the day.
junk is just my opinion of a product in general, nothing to do with what you're doing.

Regards, Gerard

By Roy Baker on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 04:05 pm: Edit

About 2 years ago I purchased a few muffin tins made by "Bakers Dozen". Now I want to purchse more but have been unable to find any. What's different about these tins is that they make what are called MUFFIN HEADS, and the cup detents are very shallow. If I could locate the company that sells them it would be a start.

By W.DeBord on Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - 08:49 am: Edit

I think I've seen those pans in William Sonoma or Marshall Fields. One company that made them use to be named Chicago Metal Craft now I believe it is American Metal Craft. Look under "Buying pastry equipment in the US" we talk about this company and I believe there is a address and phone number listed.

I would check any discount kitchen stores in factory outlet centers. Those types of pans may show up there because I don't think they were a large retail hit.

Good Luck

By Matt (Matt) on Tuesday, November 16, 1999 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Rob-

I believe JB Prince has them. They are made by Chicogo Metallic

Matt