OK, I'm making lemon tarts and I need some info on lemon curd! 3 questions:

1) What is the difference between lemon curd and the lemon filling (i.e. lemon meringue pie filling)? Apart from the pie filling having starch, is there any?

2) When preparing lemon curd, is it better to use a double boiler or in a single pan directly over heat?

3) Lemon tarts havealways been a favorite of mine, not only for their taste but for their look! I would love to know how to "dome" the lemon filling/curd on my tarts. (Does this make sense?)

Be patient with me -- I'm a beginning baker! Thanks!

By d. on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Lemon curd usually consists of eggs and/or yolks, sugar, lemon juice and butter. No starch is added and it is cooked over a double boiler to regulate the coagulation of the eggs and not scramble them. Lemon pie filling has the same ingredients but water and a starch are added for stability when the pie is sliced. You must cook this directly over the stove so you can boil out the starch. I usually use the curd for tarts and the lemon pie filling for deeper pies.

By Rubble (Rubble) on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Thanks, d!

Any helpful hints on how to achieve that domed effect with my lemon tarts? Some lemon tarts I see are flat, but most have a wonderful dome of lemon curd resting in the tart shell. (In fact, when I was in Paris recently, every tarte au citron I saw was rounded and lovely!) I would be grateful for your insights/tips!

Thanks again & take care!

By Hans (Hans) on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 01:53 am: Edit

I hope you are not a glorified homemaker, since this recipe will be too large for household use, unless you have a lemon tree.
Your dome question kind of makes me suspicious in this respect.
You can achieve a structure of superdome proportions with this by chilling the curd before filling your tarts, tartelettes.
* Exported from MasterCook *

Lemon Curd

Recipe By : Hartmut W.Kuntze, CMC
Serving Size : 80 Preparation Time :0:30
Categories : Creams & Puddings Curds
Fillings Fruit Toppings

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
3 lbs Butter -- Unsalted
2 ounces Lemon Compound -- * see note
1 1/2 quarts Lemon Juice -- Fresh Squeezed
72 ounces Gran. Sugar
48 ea Eggs, AA Large

Combine all and cook in stainless steam kettle, stirring constantly until curd thickens. 185F or so..
Pour in stainless 200 pan. Sprinkle with sugar.
Cover, Label, Date, Refrigerate.

Do not use a double boiler, you'll waste time for nothing.
The curd can't curdle if you whisk reasonably fast, the sugar and butter won't let it.

Use as is for lemon filling or fold with equal parts of whipped cream for Lemon Mousse.

Do Not!!!! use bottled lemon juice since it will taste metallic.
You can also use Lime Juice, Sour Oranges ( Pommelo ) or Tamarind.
Of course, than it will not be Lemon Curd, but the Curd of whateverJjuice and Zest you are using.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NOTES : *If Lemon Compound is not available, use the zest from 10 lemons (yellow only), but the US lemons are always sprayed with chemicals, unless they are certified organic.
A quality Lemon Compound from Doehler, Hero, etc. will be much more flavorful and chemical free.

Makes 240 ounces = 80 x 3 ounce servings. Will make 8 ounces in
Volume of Mousse, if combined with equal parts in weight of
Sweetened Whipped Heavy Cream.

By W.DeBord on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 07:57 am: Edit

Just a little further explaination on the domeing of the curd. When it cools it thickens greatly, then you can mound it. If you put the filling in the tart when it's hot the curd is thinner and doesn't have the "body" to hold a dome shape so it will over flow if it's over filled, it can't dome.

My recipe is very thick and easy to make. You must use a NON-aluminum pan.

12 lg. eggs
1 1/2 c. sugar
1 c. butter chopped
Grated zest of 1 lemon
1 c. lemon juice (about 6 lemons)
splash of lemon emulsion (optional)

Combine zest, juice, eggs and sugar whisk together in pan (I don't use a double boiler). Using a wooden spoon with a straight bottom cook mixture over a medium heat stirring constantly while cooking. Cook until it's thick enough to coat the back of the wooden spoon, aprox. 20 min.

Remove from heat and add butter and emulsion stirring till it's smooth. Transfer to a bowl and lay plastic directly on the surface to prevent a skin from forming. Chill well before using.

By Yankee on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 02:24 am: Edit

Sounds yummy. I usually sub in two limes for one big lemon along the way for a little different flavor.

I'm not big on compound flavorings, but I know they serve a purpose for some folks. The bottled lemon juice is just awful. We also use Ravifruit purees, like passionfruit, papaya, mango, etc. for something different.

By W.DeBord on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 08:11 am: Edit

I think I'm the last person on earth who doesn't use ravifruit or any other "instant" fruit. I'd like to, do you think they are cost wise smart (shelf life is what?)?

All the flavorings out there are expensive! Since I've never worked with someone else I haven't had the chance to try other brands. Panini and tj were talking about a brand they like...I'm not quite sure who's the best (in flavorings). Do you buy different flavors from different manufactors, or is there one line that really stands out as the best?


P.S. I've yet to find an orange curd that was terrific (bold and interesting), does any one have a good recipe?

By Yankee on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 01:45 pm: Edit

The only Ravifruit we buy is the puree. We only buy the stuff that is labor saving. Ever tried to juice passionfruit or coconut? We buy the mango becuase we go through mago sorbet like crazy and it's hard to get consistent mangos. The coconut is expensive, but it pays for itself in the end.

By tj on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 05:04 pm: Edit

we were talking about dridopple compounds. the best in the univers, no competition, trully a wonderful product.their lemon compound is especialy intense ,with a light hint of lemon rind flavour.it is very very good, and super easy to use.although the rest of the flavours are wonderful too.i think ,of all the flavours i tried with them ,my all time favorite is the amaretto, hands down! it is unlike any other amaretto compound out there...the aroma is incredible !
(and no ,i dont work for them...... :-).....)

By tj on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 05:10 pm: Edit

and i dont use frozen fruit purree .its just an expensive product, i see no justification for the prices, when i can buy the fruits in season ,puree them myself when they are cheap and freeze...but even when some are out of season, it is still cheaper to make your own...the price per pound is very high compared to fresh fruit purree...i think its one of those things for "spoiled" chefs with little or no cost control in mind....

By tj on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 05:17 pm: Edit

this probebly should be in the tip area , but for mango sorbet i use an egyptian mango nectar that is so intense that i cant even drink it as it is,they also make a guava nectar that is the best i ever had,super rich and thick. i balance it with a 30deg.baume syrop to about 14deg.baume and turbine it. the company name is KAHHA , from cairo (i think) and it only costs $2.45 per litter (about 1 kilo, or 2.2 lbs)

By Yankee on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 03:13 am: Edit

Hey tj, be a bit more careful when you toss around a word like "spoiled." I'm not one of those "starched whites and clip board" hotel guys.

We don't "foam" anything, either. ;)

Trust me, I've run the numbers. We get a lot of return out of the little Ravifruit that we do buy. The food cost is next to nothing. It's all about working smarter, not harder.

It's the labor that restricts us. We are 99.5% fresh produce & scratch bake. I'm not going to kill my labor cost over that last .5% given the type of restaurant I'm in now. You don't make your own neutral gel and fondant, do you?

Thanks for the tip about the Egyptian mango nectar, anyhoo. Sounds yummy. Who is your distributor?

By W.DeBord on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 07:29 am: Edit

Spanish chef gets our mangos at Mexican Grocery store for much less then American produce companies. We also have gotten nice frozen mangos from our produce company.

tj could you post your sources phone number for dridopple brand, PLEASE? Do you eliminate using alchol when your using certain flavorings like amaretto and just stay with the extract?

By oli on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 11:10 am: Edit

tj, how do you get the raspberry flavour to come through on a raspberry mousse. I've tried raspberry puree and a little framboise but its still hard to tell that its a raspberry mousse. I have been told to use raspberry paste, but considering the price I am still looking for alernative, less costly method.
Thanks

By tj on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 07:34 pm: Edit

oli, you can use a raspberry purree with very ripe raspberries (i like them just before the turn to mush).but you will have better results with dridopple raspberry compound.the dosage i use is 30 gr compound in every 800 gr of batter(cream ,mousse,custard ,etc.).the flavour is deep and well defind.the aroma plays an important roll here, and dripdople delivers %100.you just open one of their containers and the whole kithen smells from the mousse you are making...w.debord.,
i get mine shipped from orlando from lipton&co. 1-800-food-123. it looks expensive but the cost for 30 gr of compound is neglegeble.i sometimes use them for sorbet "in a rush"-sugar syrop+water+compound=very nice sorbet in seconds!(plus some whipped egg whites at the end)
the egyptian nectars come from n.y. i will look the # up for you.......

By tj on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 07:42 pm: Edit

as for alcohol compound like the amaretto, marc de champagn, truffle praline, napoleon cognac, creme de menth, etc. dridople makes them with the alcohol in, so the aroma is very very strong! a little compound goes a very long way and it have all the alcohol effects as if you used the real alcohols but without the thinning effect.if you will use it in a hot custard ,it will evaporate(just the alcohol -not the flavour), so i always use it in cold temp.after the bavaroise has cooled down.it is also a good short cut for desserts in a rush or in emergency, you just add it to sweetened whipped cream and have a "mousse" in 2 seconds...i used to have in my bakery 12 different compounds always on hand.

By W.DeBord on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 12:48 am: Edit

Thanks for posting your source tj, it's very appreciated! I will have to try them a.s.a.p..

oli are you using fresh rasp. puree? I use purchased frozen rasp. for my sauces and mousse etc..., the flavor is very intense.

By Panini (Panini) on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 06:28 pm: Edit

tj
It feels good to know somebody else thinks highly of the driedopple compounds. I to stock a large variety.
DeBord,
To short cut purees I use Boiron frozen puree.
I think they are 5-10% sugar. They are very versatile. They can even be used on the cooking side. Talk your chef into using them and it will be easier for you to stock them. They have an extensive variety, my favorite is the green apple puree and the passion fruit.

By W.DeBord on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 09:35 am: Edit

For instance Panini what bakery items are you using green apple puree in? Apple charlotte?

All those wonderful flavors, I do rasp., straw., blueberry, orange and lemon & lime day after day. I really would like to have many other flavors selling but they just don't. Is the mid-west the only palate challenged area?

Last buffet I had pear reisling sabayon triffles, 5-spice sabayon fruit tartlets, apricot charlotte sit there while they were begging for more chocolate molton cakes, pralines and triple chocolate cheesecake. Dessert is included in the price and yet they don't venture from the known....


Looking at Pastry Art & Design and many of the more contempory books have so many interesting flavor combinations, I'm not sure if it's happening or fantasy? Other than in sorbets or icecreams (which don't sell here either) are people really BUYING anything other than the standards?

By Raine on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 10:51 am: Edit

Not in my area. I can't even get them to stray from chocolate or white cake. These people are so dull. We offer 11 different cake flavors with 6 icings and 1o or more fillings. All orders usually end up white with vanilla bc or choc w/ choc icing. Some might walk on the edge and order raspbery filling.

By W.DeBord on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Where are you Raine?

By Raine on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 01:55 pm: Edit

Orlando, Florida. You'd think with so much ethnic diversity there would be more variation. I think most advanced pallates are in Miami area. Wish they'd send some up my why.

By Panini (Panini) on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 04:34 pm: Edit

W.DeBord,
Yes charlottes, bovoise etc. Most of these types of desserts go to the caterers. I also use them for sauces. I use alot of different purees to ,base, fruit relish and compotes. The caterers and restaurants here do alot of entree mimicing.
example. Tacos- florentine shell, diced fruits to resemble vege. Burritto- choco crepe filled, sauced with mango,guava, green apple etc.
Ya know things like that.You sound like you do things like that. Its really a shame that your customers don't have the courage to try new things. What would happen if you tried exotic twists to old fashioned names? I know alot of people at this site are into truth to menu, and call a donut a donut,but I don't.Sometimes you have to lure the customers into trying something.
panini

By tj on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 08:35 pm: Edit

raine ,w., i am starting to be depressed....
you are begining to sound like me.....
it is so unbelivebly difficult to get people in the usa to try something else....

By oli on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 11:04 pm: Edit

W.DeBord
I use the frozen raspberries just as you do but I remember your posting regarding the Raspberry Cream Torte saying fraspberry flavour is not strong enough and you recommended the raspberry sauce.
Thanks for the help tj and w.
tj if you see this message I agree with you how a lot students don't realize the library of information they have teaching them. Europeans (at least most)look up to the previous generation with respect and " hang on to each and every word"

By Raine on Monday, May 29, 2000 - 02:30 am: Edit

It's not so depressing. Customers may have bland taste, but they like extravegant docoration. It takes about 3 seconds to decide cake flavor, and 1/2 hour trying to describe decoration. That's the part that makes my job enjoyable.
Can only hope W. has a similar outlet.

By W.DeBord on Monday, May 29, 2000 - 10:47 am: Edit

Yes, I do alot of elaborate decoration and they go crazy for the visuals. My ala carte desserts are where I go plain/safe because that's a seperate purchase for them. Buffets are different because the cost of dessert is included. Who knows, when I began my job two years ago they ate nothing I made...on a buffet maybe 1/4 of each item was eaten. Now I get wiped out and they ask if I have more of certain items. So they are kind of learning to trust me...maybe one day they'll be more adventurous but it's only going to happen through trust. Honestly, it has been a metamorphosis in how the people are responding to my desserts.

oli the lack of flavor in that recipe was from the recipe not the fruit used. It had a cream base then added rasp. flavor which got diluted.

By Raine on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 09:15 am: Edit

Retail is somewhat different. We used to offer samples, but had too many vultures that would eat half the try and then only buy a cookie. So now I only give samples to people that ask. After tasting the other options they usually won't order chocolate or vanilla, because they are boring in comparison.