I have lost a recipe for a cake made with (heaven forbid) a chocolate cake mix, mayonnaise, mini marshmallows, nuts, and chocolate chips. This cake was called Rocky Road Cake and was made for a bundt pan. It is truly delicious, and I might add, easy. If you have it please email me at JABMattson@aol.com Thanks

By jeee2 on Saturday, April 01, 2000 - 07:05 pm: Edit

If I had it I'd do you favor and burn it.

Cheers, Gerard

By Matt (Matt) on Saturday, April 01, 2000 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Gerard-
Be nice.......I have a match :-)

Matt

By matt on Saturday, April 01, 2000 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Gerard-
Be nice.......I have a match :-)

Matt

By Doucefrance (Doucefrance) on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 08:19 am: Edit

Cake mix and mayonnaise? Maybe I should go back to France...
Helene

By momoreg on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 10:06 am: Edit

I don't know if this helps, but I have a recipe for brownies with gorgonzola ;}

By Panini (Panini) on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 10:18 am: Edit

Jeanne,
They kid you, but most of them make a mayonaise when making cakes like carrot. ya know sugar & oil and add eggs slowly till volume.
Now the brownies! is this real or a spoof?

By Mikeh (Mikeh) on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Sure, some carrot cake recipes are like making mayonaise, but there is a world of difference between fresh mayonaise and the chemical-laced stuff you buy in the grocery store.

By W.DeBord on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Jeanne I have a similar recipe but it does not contain mayo. I'm familar with cake recipes using mayo, but those are from scratch recipes not involving mixes. Could you be rememebering incorrectly and combining two different recipes (one with mayo and one that uses a mix)?

"Rocky Road Cake", 100 New Bundt Ideas published by Pillsbury 1977:

1 pkg. dark chocolate cake mix
3 eggs
1/3 c. oil
1 c. h2o
6.oz chocolate chips
1 c. mini marshmallows
1/2 c. chopped nuts

Grease and flour a 12 cup bundt pan. Beat first 4 ingred. together than fold in chips, nuts and marshmallows. Bake 350 aprox. 40 min. Frost with a chocolate glaze.

By momoreg on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 05:37 pm: Edit

The brownie thing was a joke. Actually, I'm sure the mayo idea is great; I was just adding to the humor.

By Panini (Panini) on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 08:12 pm: Edit

I just finished a sheet pan of fudge brownies topped with Gorgonzola. Actually they taste great but I can't get the smell out of my oven!
Chemically laced Mayo! Hellmans is real mayonaise, just a little calciul disodium I think.
Does mayo need to be refrigerated?,can it stay in the danger zone? Will it grow bacteria to cause food borne illness?
Jeanne, I think WDeBord is right, I don't think you would add mayo to a mix.

By W.DeBord on Sunday, April 02, 2000 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Here's the recipe. I was doing my usual nightly read of cookbooks and on page 5 was choc. cake made with mayo. I stand corrected.

1 pkg. chocolate cake mix (with pudding in the mix)
1 c. mayo
1 c. h2o
3 eggs
6 oz, choc. chips
1 c. marshmallows
1/2 c, chopped nuts

Mix and bake as I wrote above. The mayonnaise takes the place of the oil/fat. If you can't get the cake mix that includes pudding reduce mayo to 1/2 c. and increase h2o to 1 1/3 c. or add an instant chocolate pudding in with your mix (I do that all the time and probably would do that to the above posted recipe).

By momoreg on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 08:44 am: Edit

Panini,
If the mayo is baked, it's not as dangerous as plain mayo. Just like eggs.

By jeee2 on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 02:47 pm: Edit

The trouble with mayo in pastry is the vinegar.
Why bother???

By d. on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Look into the Hershey's chocolate website, they have a bunch of home recipes and choc. mayo cake is one of them.

By W.DeBord on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 06:32 pm: Edit

I found that recipe in ad for Hellmann's mayo in an old issue of Bon Appetit. In another issue I saw another ad where they give you a scratch chocolate cake also, using their mayo..

I make several cakes that use vinegar. For instance, one is called "red cake" (it has several different names). Marcel Desalniers uses vinegar in his chocolate cake and I can think of a couple other ones too (in older cookbooks). They do taste very good, I think you'd be suprised! You can not detect vinegar in the finished cake.

By Kathyf (Kathyf) on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 06:37 pm: Edit

There is an excellent pie crust with vinegar too - never fail pie crust.

By Panini (Panini) on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Mayonaise does not have to be refrigerated.Even after it has been opened.It has a pH less than 4.6. This brings me back to food safety. Lets talk about it.

By jeee2 on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 08:58 pm: Edit

OK mayo pastry it is then.
Good eating.

By momoreg on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 09:27 pm: Edit

Kathy-
Someone here recently posted a recipe for pie crust that includes vinegar. What is the purpose?

By Kathyf (Kathyf) on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 12:42 am: Edit

momoreg - I have no clue! If anyone else out there does - let us know. I've used this recipe since I made my first pie at 12 years old. My great uncle sold slices of it to his friends. It's a quick, easy and delicious crust. Can be rolled very thin and still be flaky.
3 C. flour 1 t. vinegar
1 C. crisco 1 egg
1 t. salt 5 T. cold water
I brush the top milk and sprinkle with sugar.

By Doucefrance (Doucefrance) on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 07:16 am: Edit

I have some recipes of dough in which I put a small amount of vinegar. The purpose is to prevent those little black spots in the dough when you refrigerate it for several days. This was the explanation that was given to me by Joel BELLOUET when we worked those recipes in one of his classes.
Helene

By jeee2 on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 07:18 am: Edit

The reason for vinegar in recipes, ? so how would you know why its not necessary. The vinagar is used for its acid, why anyone would do that instead of lemon is beyond me. Further, if your pie dough needs acid you need to learn how to make pie dough . Just because its in a book means nothing, theres so many half baked pastry books around. I don't think Desalniers is a pastry chef or a baker.
Maybe I've confused him with someone else but I think so.
Anyhoo, acids in most doughs interfere with gluten development, if you need it in pie dough to make it relax then you are doing something wrong in the first place. Overmixing etc.
Acid is used in cocoa based cake batter to enhance the color, theres no secret to it, again vinegar is a poor choice and done for the sake of being different. There are too many better ways to fall for that silliness.

Cheers, Gerard

By jeee2 on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 07:21 am: Edit

Helene,
Joel was confused. You will see vinegar in recipes that are meant to be used immediately, I don't think it does much for oxidizing spots.

Cheers, Gerard

By jeee2 on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 07:28 am: Edit

d,
<<<Look into the Hershey's chocolate website, they have a bunch of home recipes and choc. mayo cake is one of them. <<

No thanks, As a trained pro I have no use for home recipes. But I think you should look at the people who write those recipes for Hershey.
Theres a constant pressure to come up with something new and different but its all the same and in many cases its worse than the proven standards. Another reason for acid in cakes, besides the obvious is to help the top bake level.
It interferes with the batter gluten and makes it flow level until it sets.
I love to eat trash, snickers, heathbar cookies, oreo ice cream... but theres a limit. Dieu.

By Kathyf (Kathyf) on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 08:32 am: Edit

Gerard - One person's trash is another person's treasure.
I didn't get the pie crust recipe out of a book, it came from my great grandmother. Maybe vinegar was easier to get ahold of then than lemons. If you have no use for home recipes, then your losing out.
Just how far up in the air is your nose?

By jeee2 on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 11:45 am: Edit

Kathy , how am I supposed to use home recipes in a commercial bakery , they are all in cup / spoon measures,professionals don't work like that.

not to mention customers can do home baking themselves. They pay, expect and deserve better.

Your gran wasn't a trained pro.

<Just how far up in the air is your nose? <

far enough not to put mayo in cakes I hope.!

Cheers, Gerard

By W.DeBord on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 12:17 pm: Edit

I use home recipes ALLLLL the time on the job. I find them to often have a much better taste than recipes from professional books!!!!!!

I don't think anyone that bakes regularly buys regularly. They expect quality which can be arrived at through home recipes and professional not just one or the other.

Providing a quality tasting product is my job and whether I use a cup or a scale to measure....my customers couldn't care less and my pocket book doesn't either. Home recipes can be scaled up and down with-out any more problems then professional recipes.

I think you greatly limit yourself by being totally closed off from the millions of really great recipes that do not fit your definition of professional.

By jeee2 on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 12:54 pm: Edit

You're right, I'll never know the joy of mayo cake. I hope.!

If you want to talk greatly limiting yourself ?
being self taught you have no training. What sort of limitation is that?
It doesn't come from a book either...and this medium can be frustrating to convey methods.

Cheers, Gerard

By Kathyf (Kathyf) on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Gerard - With all your professional training you don't know how to scale up a recipe?
W.DeBord - I'm self taught too. Sure am glad I didn't have any of that fancy schoolin' if they teach you to limit your recipes and ingredients. I love to look through cookbooks too. If I find an interesting new recipe,it makes sense to try a small batch and then scale it up if it's good.

My customers have me do their "home" baking for them because they don't have time. Speaking of time, it's lunch time. Guess I'll go fix a peanut butter and mayo sandwich. Or should I have peanut butter and dill pickle today?

By momoreg on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 05:01 pm: Edit

If I have a home recipe that I want to do in quantity, I just convert the measures into weights, and scale it up to the size I need. I now have a professional recipe. Who cares where it came from, as long as it is consistent and tastes good?

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Everybody is from different worlds. In a country club you can play with home recipes, there is alot of flexibility. I also understand Gerard, it is not feasable to take home recipes, formulate them, put them into production, and develope
SOP's around them . As far as doing home baking for customers, that is something I really like to stay away from.It usually take me more time to figure cogs, labor, ect. than the actual baking.
I find that home bakers often frequent us to get something the can't do at home.

Guy's, don't get mayo crazy! Down here people throw coca cola and 7-up into mixes! Most professional formulas ?"whatever that means" probably evolved from old home recipes.

By d. on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Momoreg, I do what you do and convert home recipes if a recipe catches my attention(like Chocolatier and Bon Appetit magazines). I also convert cake recipes to baker's percentages so I get a clue as to how the cake comes out without wasting any ingredients.
Gerard, I respect your point. But I also have tried many pro formulas like in Professional Baking and The Professional Pastry Chef, and a lot of them just don't turn out a good product. In fact most of my bar, brownies and cookie formulas were derived from regular cookbooks and "home" recipes. I've come across many home recipes that have been horrible too.
Vinegar in piecrust weakens gluten development so it makes rolling easier, and prevents shrinkage while baking. I've never tried a pie crust recipe using it though.

By W.DeBord on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 07:54 pm: Edit

Gerard no one could ever accuse you of being sensitive or tackful. "What sort of limitation is that (being self taught)"? Apparently NONE since I am an employeed pastry chef. If your attitute is an example of what your mentoring skills are NO THANKS, I don't see that as a "leg up" in education.

So far, thank you, I've done quite well. I show my skills everyday here writing about pastrys. I don't know everything and I sure don't bake "your way" but I'm a very good baker and an excellent decorator regardless of your personal opinion of my limited self taught skills!

By jeee2 on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 08:58 pm: Edit

W.E Debord,

you are employed but plainly constantly casting about for help. Do yourself a favor and get some training.
My first partner , Carol, was self taught. She was very talented, knew what people wanted and what was good. I picked up a lot and taught her how to bake, how to take her ideas and make them work in quantity. She died 4 yrs ago.
I have a new partner, Helen, she also has very good taste, scours the mags for vegetarian crap the public wants and we take her ideas and adapt them to production.
I don't babysit any of the women I have been partners with, I treat them like equal professionals.

Cheers, Gerard

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 10:38 pm: Edit

I was in the first graduating class of a culinary school in New England, wish I had that money back. I'm not school bashing but I came up in the industry and I don't think that type of training helped me one bit.
What is training? Does it always have to be from someone? Can it come from trial and era?Can you be a natural? I've seen some naturals!

By jeee2 on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 12:05 am: Edit

Panini.
The trouble with teaching yourself is you never know what you don't know and by the time you know you're too old. Centuries of kitchen wisdom can't be realised by ourselves. Looking for it in magazines and books can be very unrewarding because of the dearth of GOOD books. Magazine writers are the ultimate wannabes, can't do anything but know it all.
My brother did the culinary school thing, he is VERY knowledgeable, no doubt about it and has a knack for applying the chemistry in a practical way to the work at hand, but his pastry stinks.
I don't know if thats just him or what.
My apprentice dropped out of J&W, says its a complete scam. Some education is needed but they go way overboard. The knowledge you can teach yourself but training under a master is mandatory at some point. I can't see a substitute for that.
I never did the schools but the chemistry knowledge is available and I read what I need from time to time.

By jeee2 on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 12:15 am: Edit

d,

<<and The Professional Pastry Chef, <<

Bo Friberg's book ?
Couldn't agree more. He sucks.
I tried 2 or 3 recipes, thought they looked odd but the book appears so complete "how could I go wrong" ?. Famous last words.
I should have known when I saw egg yolks in his ganache or triple the amount of sugar in pastry cream that tasted like canned pudding.
I gave the book to Craig Goeschel who came to visit last xmas ( I made him work too !).

Sadly, that is one of the books used by culinary schools and he wrote many of the pastry tests for the ACF certification. Pitiful ain't it?

Cheers

By matt on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 12:52 am: Edit

d.

I have both books that you mentiond. Pro baking gives you basic recipies. I will use one if I need it, but I will always have to tweek it to fit the clientel we deal with.( More butter and sugar.) The recipies are met to be tweaked in this book. His corn bread is a little dry, so I make and adjustment. Bo's book I luke warm. Some of the cookies are good, but his muffs and breads need to much work. I've used Bo's book as a ref.

By Pam (Pam) on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 02:01 am: Edit

re: vinegar in pie crust, d was correct in that it relaxes the gluten. My insructor in school liked to do this, but only in flaky not short doughs.It does make it more pliable & stretches easier. I usually only make short dough but if I have to make a flaky pie I do put cider vinegar in it, in with the ice water.It's a habit now.

By Pam (Pam) on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 02:09 am: Edit

I have never worked anywhere that I've used a cake mix.It's never even seemed like an option. Cake batter is pretty simple. I use a brownie mix at home if they're for the kids parties.I'm not wasting my Callabaut! But thats no reason to look down on people who use mixes. I'm sure these pastry chefs know what their customers like or they wouldn't be working there! My own sister wanted coolwhip for her gingerbread cake instead of the beautiful sweetened whipped cream with vanilla seeds!!My family wouldn't care if I used crisco & powdered sugar frosting. They like it. Everyone has different tastes & you can't force you won rules on them.

By jeee2 on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 06:45 am: Edit

Pam,

no-one cares about your family, this is trade talk. I owned a French restaurant but went home and ate spam and beans, its got nothing to do with personal taste.

Matt,

anything good in the second edition of specialty breads from the French series?
Someone here made lavender tea and bread from that, it tastes like soap on toast.

By momoreg on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 06:47 am: Edit

I don't know about you, but I've never had a pie dough shrink. If it's that bad, no amount of vinegar can fix the fact that it's overmixed. Also, most people use crisco in their pie dough for flakiness, but I can always taste the difference between that and all butter. Sometimes I fall for claims that 'this is the best pie dough', and when I try making it, I always go back to my own.

By momoreg on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 06:49 am: Edit

Everyone has their own opinion, and that's what makes the world go 'round.

By W.DeBord on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 09:13 am: Edit

You know the longer I bake the more I realize even "trained" pastry chefs come across some really basic stuff that they're not familar with, too. Those are the questions I post, because I don't think I know everything, I ask.

My mother had a bakery. She never stood next to me and showed me how to do anything. I did watch them bake while I was washing their dishes, but that's all. Mom was good but she doesn't have the "touch" I have, and as of YET I haven't worked with someone equal to me in that respect. I was definately born with it.

I have looked thru some school catalogs. The classes they offer cover things I know and have been doing for years. Many of them (advanced classes too) I'm sure I could teach. I can't leave my job to go study with someone else at this point. If I were to aspire to a different high volume position that would be different.

P.S. Working as a pastry chef ONLY I only, I have 2 1/2 years experience.

By Panini (Panini) on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Gerard,
We agree on the schooling and I certainly agree with you on apprenticing in any form. I was very fortunate to work with some of the top Pastry Chefs and Chefs in Europe. But ya know I think I learned just as much from my grandmaother about the basics.I was always the black sheep in my family, I chose tagging along with my grandma making pasta,gardening,baking over playing baseball.Funny though, baseball paid my way through college!
DeBord makes a great point about schooling or training in this stage of her? career. The chef's association does not cut it,I would love to start a nation wide cross training program set up like an exchange student program. Come to my house for a week, work with me etc. I don't know I guess I'd have to hit the lottery first.

By Seawitch (Seawitch) on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Weird I saw this forum tonight. Regular customer of the restaurant I have been
working has been begging me to make a red velvet cake with buttercream
frosting for her sister's birthday..."hasn't had it since she was a child...her one
wish...can't find it anywhere" and all that. It had the vinegar mixed with the soda
and the 2 oz. of red food coloring. It was the worst thing I have ever seen.
Looked like it was bleeding! I gave it to her free and told her not to tell anyone
where it came from. To top it off, our owner informed me today that he bought
some frozen pie crusts, some frozen slop he called " key lime filling without
eggs" from his favorite place in Key West" and wanted me to make up some
pies and freeze them! Well combined with some other stuff going on there, I
quit. He doesn't need me, he needs Clarence Birdseye.

By jeee2 on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 08:31 am: Edit

Panini,
Its never too late to take a step back and regroup, theres a very famous pastry chef who writes lots of books, she has to take lessons in France before publishing recipes because she doesn't know how to do it, theres actually 2 or 3 doing this. My brother just took a $15K paycut to escape the pastry chef rat race.
When it comes to training you either do it first or need it in the end but theres no way around it.

"Come to my house for a week, work with me et"
Only if you have spam and beans.!
Cheers, Gerard

By jeee2 on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 08:36 am: Edit

Seawitch

Where are going to work now?
Do Pat and Penny still run the middle street cafe (Cafe aroma?). Theres plenty of nice little places to work in Newburyport.
Goose bay lodge in Maine is looking for someone, with the summer season starting you'll have no problems finding work on the north shore.

By d. on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 05:54 pm: Edit

Just last week I had a tasting for a wedding cake. Made 3 samples: dark chocolate cake with chocolate mousse, Chocolate cake with raspberry mousse and rasp. and lemon cake with a lemon curd and citrus mousse. Client informed my boss that they were good but she wanted "supermarket" and "cake in a box" devil's food cake with that canned fudge buttercream frosting and thick white 10x powdered sugar buttercream icing. I know I make excellent cakes(client's/staff response), so the products I presented her with were not inferior. I proceeded to make what she wanted(the hi-ratio cake recipe I used was very good, moist and chocolatey and the buttercream was gooey and dark), and this time she said it was too chocolatey!!! It's obvious this person has a specific taste for cake mixes and canned crap. And I'm not doing the wedding cake...

By Panini (Panini) on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 06:21 pm: Edit

Gerard,
Fortunately I have no intention of writing books or teaching.But your right.
What the he-- are spam and beans? Your invitation is open. We'll dine at 5 star rest. and hotels some nights and if my son has baseball or school we'll be eating some sort of meat with mac & cheese. Can you take a step backwards?

By Seawitch (Seawitch) on Friday, April 21, 2000 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Gerard, sorry to get back to you so late. Too steamed up to write! Pat & Penny
sold Middle St. New place o.k., but doesn't have the "old world feel" or the
quality of the old place. Where am I going to work? Going to start new thread -
DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS? - would like to ask you something and I know you
will give me a frank answer (I don't think anyone could accuse you of ever
"beating around the bush"!