If any of you have any suggestions
to this problem, they would be much appreciated. I am currently
trying to help my R&D dept with a little problem they are having
with a new product we are developing for commercial production.
We just invested in 4 100k dollar machines for the production
of en croute products and our first project is a line of "pockets".
We are having a big problem with all the different doughs we try
cracking. Of course when they crack, the filling tends to "oooz"
and that is not a good thing. The dough we are trying to perfect
has some interesting characteristics that pose many possible
problems and I would love to have your expert input. The dough
has both yeast AND baking powder but does not allow any proofing
time for the yeast lending me to the conclusion that the baking
powder is the primary levening agent. Do you think this "raw" yeast
could be causing the problem? Also, the recipe does not call for any
sugar for the yeast to feed on...could THAT be the possible cause?
I have wondered about using a steam injection into the oven at the
beginning of the baking process to moisten the dough prior to the
harsh heat as an option. The oven that we will ultimately be using
in the production of this product is a conveyor type the size
of a friggin' train car but it does ahve the capability of adding
steam to the cooking process. We have tried several different types
and quantities of shortning to give the dough more elasticity but
to no avail. When we are "lucky", it cracks on the top so that there
is no "oooz" but this is obviously still not acceptable for mass
production. We are, of course, aware of the MANY variables in the
production of bread products. We are using bottled spring water with
a very low ph and the highest quality bread flour.

Thanks again for any input you may have.

By Corey (Corey) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:15 pm: Edit

use a type of puff pastry and score the tops for venting.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 01:45 am: Edit

well thats quite a problem.
have you tryed using a Pate' dough with sugar added?
Or the same type of dough they would use for a empannade'(spelling is awful) that pocket thing from South America, with the meat and potatoes in it.
I don't think the steam is the way to go, cause I think since your on a convayer belt which means a certain time frame, that if you add moisture it may not give you time to bake it out.
I also don't think that a dough that requires proofing is the way to go.
it sounds like you need a dough that is strong enough to hold your filling(while it's baking and giving off moisture, STEAM) and then soft enough not to break teeth, and strong enough after it's baked to hold together.
Off the top of my head.........
1. cut some pastry flour into your bread flour.
Why?....cause you don't need all that glutin and it will help with a tighter texture.
2. if there is a way to inject or spray a egg wash onto the product while it's baking, try it.
What Combination?.....egg white alone will add moisture to the top of your product, and give it a shinny look. But to much white and it will darken and crack itself.
egg yolk(2/3) and milk(1/3) will add moisture at first but may produce a dry product in the end, because of the milk, but will add a nice color.
Water, egg yolk and a couple of whites maybe what your looking for.
Color, moisture, good reaction with the surface of the dough, leaves it soft after baking but helps hold it together until it cools down.
oh and playing around with the shorting was a good idea, but I don't think that is it, only.
and you may want to back off with too much shortening because it may make the bottom of your product over baked, greazzzy, and dark in color.
I hope this helps, again this is just off the top of my head.
If you want to send me your recipe for the dough, to look at, I will, with the understanding that I keep it to myself. And as long as it's ok with George

By Esjay (Esjay) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 11:06 am: Edit

Hi Pacrimchef, we don't have problems, we only have solutions.........
like Chefspike requested, send me a copy of your recipe,baking temperature, it might be a number of different things, how much moisture is in the filling? could it be creating too much steam during the baking process? causing the "oozing"?
The dough might just need an increase in the gluten content, allowing it to stretch during baking, or fat content may need to be increased to soften the dough, before the starches begin to expand...... so many possibilities, send your recipe, it may be easier to spot the problem.

By Snuffaluff (Snuffaluff) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 12:36 pm: Edit

yeah, what they said. *8)

By Corey (Corey) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 01:10 pm: Edit

yes, first thing I learned in school, baking is science! my teacher used to tell us this over and over again. hmm, also, why do you use yeast and not give them food to do thier thing? without food they just stay dormant and then die in the baking process, if you don't want them to do something, then why add them?

By Pacrimchef (Pacrimchef) on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 06:43 pm: Edit

I will send the recipe to all of you tomorrow, and it is no big secret...after all, it isn't working. As to the question of the yeast, the reason for the yeast is the flavor and it is my understanding that the yeast does not actually die since the moisture in the dough itself is enough to activate it and that flour contains at least enough sugars to keep it alive through the process. Thanks for all of your responses and I look forward to hearing from you after I send the recipe out. As a side note, one of the things I noticed in todays testing is that the cracking is occuring ONLY on the bottom sides at teh point where the dough meets the pan leading me to believe that it could be due to a difference between the ambient temp of the oven and the heat of the pan during the baking process. Thanks again.

By Baecker (Baecker) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 04:11 am: Edit

Hi.

I've seen good advice here...here's mine..

cracking could be an indication of the crust setting while the inside is still expanding because the dough hasn't had time to proof, however it will ferment (expand) in the oven until the yeast dies at a temp of 140 degrees while the crust has set already. Makes sense?

The same happwns to under-fermented bread.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 10:18 pm: Edit

http://www.promoonly.com/doughboy.html
Check out this web page for dough problems!!!!!