have anyone saw the pictures from the beaver creek competition? (www.beavercreekpastry.com)
oh boy, do they look strange....
it looks to me like show pieces are getting more and more abstract as the years progress.what sense do you make of those displays?
is it just me ? am i getting that old , or does any one else share my view of the style of show pieces these days? and its all over the place.the same weird unexplained abstract style in the intersuc competition, the same in the world pastry cup ,and in the culinary olimpics .what is it ? a fad ?
i can just imagine a crowed of confused guests in a party,standing in front of one of those show pieces ,trying to make sense of the mess.....:-)

By Raine on Monday, July 24, 2000 - 08:15 pm: Edit

That was very strange. See now, this is what happens when you have waayyyy to much time on your hands. Me thinks somebody coulds be snorting the sugar ; )

By W.DeBord on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 08:35 am: Edit

Well, I enjoy the show pieces. Once abstract art has been accepted traditional work won't be back in style tj. There are clear reasons why this style will stay.

It's easier for the less talented to "B*S*" what they are trying to do. And it's a better style for the gifted because it more cerebral than strickly representational work. It also leaves most confused and too embarassed (as if they alone don't understand) to stand up and say that stinks.

I'm not familiar with pastry competition but I recall going to the restaurant show (15 years ago)and thinking how bad the show pieces were. Chefs not understanding scale or proportion even though their work had skill they looked like children had made them...except for the couple of pulled sugar pieces that looked copied from an Asian flower arranging book.

I do hope that there will still be room for representational work to be honored. In the fine art world it's become the bastard child disregarded with-out honest consideration.

By cheftim on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 10:48 am: Edit

Ya what W DeBord said.
If i could just add. We have this fantastic medium for communication, the internet. What were we looking at beavercreek.com? There is little or no explanations for the on the graphics files. Were pictures of the show pieces the ones that won or just the pictures that turned out?

Great pictures lousy use of the medium.

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Yes I agree with cheftim,explanations would have really helped, although I really enjoyed the jack in the box and the Pokemom piece.I personally felt they were really creative,now and well done.
panini

By tj on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 03:41 pm: Edit

yes, but dont you think they all look too much alike?
if i was standing infront of them with out seeing the chefs i wouldnt know who made what...
they all have the same style more or less, tall pointy pastillage sticks, abstract pulled sugar here and there, some balls of blown sugar, non of them is difficult to creat, (if you are a professional pastry chef), and the style seems like a repetitive work of the same lines .afcourse you have some variations in the displays ,but if you will caefully analize them , you will see one or 2 distinct guide lines that are repeated again and again, to me its a little boring...

By tj on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 03:44 pm: Edit

and yes, raine is right, this is a great example of what you do when you have WAY-WAY-WAY too much time in your hand. if you have a shop to run and you can spend that much time on competitions ,your shop is not doing so well i think...thats why they all come from hotels and schools ,so they have back up at work.

By momoreg on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 04:10 pm: Edit

I agree with tj: everything seems to look the same after awhile. It reminds me of the transition of artistic style at the turn of the century. Everything shifted from realism to abstraction, and all the artists followed the trend. Now, a century later, we have a little bit of everything. I wonder where the pastry arts will be in a hundred years.

By Panini (Panini) on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 05:09 pm: Edit

tj,
I agree 100%. It seems very repetitive. It seems like no one wants to leave the box. I think the abstract pieces get boring. Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for the chefs and their work, I envy them, I wish I had the time and support to join them.
The centerpieces here, at functions I go to, all have this same style.I guess the abstract works well because it fits into different themes.It sure would be nice to have the pieces match the theme, like the old days. Ya know, blends, choco sculptures, cocoa paintings, sugar,etc.I guess labor prohibits this.
By the way, I did go to one party for the celebration of the ships in NY and the pastry chef did a small fleet of pastillage ships with pulled sugar,sponge sugars,marzipan, etc. I would have chosen any of the ships over anything I saw at the Bevercreek site.
Panini

By W.DeBord on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 10:18 pm: Edit

At fine art shows often "cra_" wins awards because the judges can't recognize talent from different. They get confused with different qualifying for talent. The contestants become confused with what the judges want, the most talented work doesn't win. It all looks the same because it is, their chasing after the same look because that's the "look" that wins. That has begun to happen in pastry competitions too.

What will really set the tone and the dirrection in pastry competitions is the quality of the judges. These people need to be independent thinkers not afraid of asserting their real opinions insake of popularity.
In fine art competitions the quality of a show over time is only a reflection of the quality of the judges. Once wonderful exhibits turn into flea markets when judging becomes a "good old boy network".

By Mikeh (Mikeh) on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 02:13 am: Edit

It is my understanding that the stuff at Beaver Creek is judged more on technical ability and how clean the piece is rather than artistry.

By Thebaker (Thebaker) on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 07:32 am: Edit

I must agree with TJ.. while the work is very good its to abtract ...I am not taking anything away from these Men and women.. I couldnt come close to anything they have done, I see more and more of this type of work.. I am not a big fan of this I prefer simple items bursting with the flavor and taste....useing very few inger. but useing the freshest and best there is.but the showy desserts are what people want and ive got to do what the boss wants... (for now).....

By Raine on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 09:10 am: Edit

What I'm wondering is, how much of the over all score was put on the show pieces? 25%-50%. I would think (hope)that the edible pieces (i.e. Bon Bons, petite fours) would have more merit, and according to the lists the tasting was pretty low on the judging scale. I ,personally, think that should be the deciding factor in a "pastry" competition, not the presentation or artistic quality of a piece.

8 hour per team, 3 people per team, 60+/- edible pieces only.(?)

By tj on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 03:48 pm: Edit

i have another interesting point to talk about.
they give very specific guide lines in the competitions to the size of the piece.something like 24"x18" base, and as tall as you want it.by doing this, you practicly put an end to the "artistic" side of the competition, simply because
you can not ever judge art by its size!
what if i have an idea for a sculpture that is only 5" large? would you think the judges consider the true artistic impression i would install in it? or instead look for the "showy" side of it, which seems to me to relate to size somehow...
this is what i believe the competitors think the judges want and try to make the pieces as tall as they can posibly make them without causing a tragic accident.
so, if every one try to make it taller and pointier ,where is the art? hopfuly in the taste...

By vbean on Friday, July 28, 2000 - 03:11 am: Edit

I agree with Raine, that someone who has the kind of time that takes to creates showpieces like that-well, count me out (and I am a hotel Pastry Chef).
I appreciate the art, I remember going to the national school in France where previous winning pieces were displayed. They were beautiful. It has never been what I wanted to do.
I place my emphsis on taste; beauty is of coure important.
Alot of the showpieces do seem ,as W.Debord said, childish. Abstract is easier for people who do not have a background in graphic or fine arts.

By Panini (Panini) on Friday, July 28, 2000 - 03:41 pm: Edit

I respectfully disagree with the last sentence.
Graphic or fine arts? It still takes technique and skill to create these abstracts. I know that they produce for the judges. I refuse to judge their skills by competition pieces. I have many chef friends who who are very talented but compete with the judges not each other. The customer is totally out of the picture in these competitions, thus, they are not realistic.

By W.DeBord on Saturday, July 29, 2000 - 07:15 pm: Edit

I don't follow you Panini "they compete with the judges"...what? Why would it not be realistic it's skill vs skill?


I'm sorry I'm trying to understand, but I don't?

By vbean on Sunday, July 30, 2000 - 05:53 am: Edit

I took alot of art history in college.
What we learned was anatomy and physical construction of a human. It is pretty much represented throughout modern time.
Artists (espicially fine and graphic artists) to perfect their form, study human anatomy and biology. This is to be able to have a precise starting point ( much like pastry). When you know where something is or what you are trying to achieve-it is easier.
This has nothing to do with the skill of working in the chosen medium. Yes, it is a skill. No, most Pastry Chefs do not have a background in anatomical biology.
The piece that I saw last year (that won,) was a nice craft piece; it took tremendous skill, but hideous art.The anatomy would have dated it pre-rennaisance.

By vbean on Sunday, July 30, 2000 - 05:56 am: Edit

I took alot of art history in college.
What we learned was anatomy and physical construction of a human. It is pretty much represented throughout modern time.
Artists (espicially fine and graphic artists) to perfect their form, study human anatomy and biology. This is to be able to have a precise starting point ( much like pastry). When you know where something is or what you are trying to achieve-it is easier.
This has nothing to do with the skill of working in the chosen medium. Yes, it is a skill. No, most Pastry Chefs do not have a background in anatomical biology.
The piece that I saw last year (that won,) was a nice craft piece; it took tremendous skill, but hideous art.The anatomy would have dated it pre-rennasiance.

By W.DeBord on Sunday, July 30, 2000 - 11:34 am: Edit

The piece that won last year took ALOT/TONS of FINE ART SKILL in design (whether you like it's visual or not)! I actually thought the person who won must have had it designed by a professional artist because it was way above a couple of spheres and pulled sugar spirals that we are currently seeing.

By Panini (Panini) on Sunday, July 30, 2000 - 01:50 pm: Edit

DeBord,
Simply put, the pieces are geared to what the judges will grade high on.
vbean, I think it has absolutely everything to do with the chosen medium. I don't know if you are giving these chef's enough credit. I'm pretty sure that some of the fine sculpturers did not study anatomical biology in a school, they were self taught or had a gift to recreate, just as some chef's do. You are probably younger than I, but I remember carving tallo and chocolate for shows. Sometimes I feel it takes a greater talent to carve ice and have it melt into shape than an artist doing it in clay.
not arguing, but just my 2 cents.
panini

By tj on Sunday, July 30, 2000 - 04:53 pm: Edit

by the way last year and this year both were won by ewald notter,the owner and teacher of the confectionery arts school.if only i was spending my entire professional life as a teacher of sugar art ....

By W.DeBord on Monday, July 31, 2000 - 09:19 am: Edit

Panini I agree, that's what I was saying...judging art actually ruins the competitions because the contestants work to please the judges. Open exhibits with-out winners or having the public vote for the winner (my prefered thought) is a better method for real artistic exchange. Exchange... I think, is the goal...because that does advance the whole group.

As a former professional artist I would agree that working with food CAN BE (but not always) much more difficult than traditional art mediums. I find the time limitations to be an exciting factor that fine artists don't have.

Tj makes a good point in the post before me. That's a apart of the reason why the show pieces should only be apart of the scoring not having any more importance than the taste.

If anyone knows someone who can address the questions brought up here at this site...invite them here...wouldn't that be interesting.

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Monday, July 31, 2000 - 10:51 am: Edit

At the ACF web site there is a page that tells how the judges score, at least for ACF sanctioned competitions.

http://acfchefs.org/events/howjudge.html

There are manual downloads for those that are interested.

By tj on Monday, July 31, 2000 - 12:09 pm: Edit

that`s why mr. notter needed his team mates from the french pastry school ,chef pfeifer and chef cannon, to make the cakes ....cause i think he did`nt make one in a long time....or at least, have very little to do with normal ,every day, baked products...i am sure he can put together a good cake, but not a spectacular one with realy interesting flavours and textures, which is what any pastry competition should be based on....

By tj on Monday, July 31, 2000 - 12:14 pm: Edit

i am not trying to offend any one, its just that ewald notter ,to me ,is not a pastry chef, but a sugar crafts man.i dont know when was the last time he made croissants,puff pastry dough, brownies or even a cookie....its just not a part of his daily rutine...