Please tell me what a Lady Windemere style wedding
cake is....I am trying to write a description and
this is something I really don't know about. Any
help will be appreciated....Thanks, Suzy

By Southern (Southern) on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Check out this image at Schroeder's Bakery!

By Southern (Southern) on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 01:35 pm: Edit

Also Cakes by Marida ...

By Anonymous on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Cakes by Marida??

All she does is cake mix and crisco buttercream. Don't think you can call that real cake.

By Southern (Southern) on Friday, July 30, 1999 - 06:25 pm: Edit

Wouldn't dream of it ... well, wouldn't want to eat the stuff anyway. Just out looking for examples of the style for Suzy to look at. Haven't found a write-up yet -- how would you describe 'em?

By jennifer h akins (Chefjenna) on Tuesday, August 17, 1999 - 10:05 am: Edit

In defense of American Cake Decorators who use shortening based decorating paste (of which I am one): Shortening bases allow for a bit more stability in the decorations and, if done correctly, can produce a pleasantly flavored item. My clients do not complain, and I always chek each batch for flavor. Classical buttercreams are of superior taste quality, there is no doubt, but are difficult to decorate with, do not take well to some colorings, and offer no staying power in the heat of outdoor weddings.

As for the cake mixes, they are good for stability and consistency and some people prefer the sure-method as opposed to the more chancey (for some) mehtos of scratch cakes.

By jeee2 on Tuesday, August 17, 1999 - 11:56 pm: Edit

Jennifer,

My wedding cake was crisco buttercream, tasted alright but not what I would do myself.

Buttercream isn't for decorating wedding cakes, its for the layers inside. A skim coat of buttercream on the outside then a thin layer of marzipan and then the royal icing.
Crisco buttercream is to simulate the royal icing.

The majority of home based cake decorators use boxed mix because its illegal to scratch bake commercially from a house unless it has a certified/inspected commercially acceptible kitchen with grease traps etc. You can make good cakes from a boxed mix but nothing to compare to a genoise wedding cake done by a good baker.

Cheers, Gerard

By W.DeBord on Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 08:14 am: Edit

Gerard I would weigh in with Ms. Akin. I wouldn't be able to set-up and walk away from a classical buttercream decorated cake and not worry. After catering for many years seeing the conditions many cakes are put though I won't risk it.
I do deal with a well traveled client, now. But I find time after time they think real buttercream is too rich. My customers seem to always go for a light layer of 50/50 shortening/butter buttercream, with a thin layer of rolled fondant.
I have never met a person who wanted a royal icing finish. This does not seem to be apart of the American way. Rolled fondant is asked for constantly (they like the look).
I too use a box mix, although I do a twist on it using it as a starting point. Genoise is always rejected in taste tests. Again Americans do have different tastes then Europeans. Even my best scratch cake gets passed over for that moist light box mix. I know you'll think "well you scratch make must not be good" but it is!

By Morgane on Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 12:46 pm: Edit

W.

That is why you mix buttercreme with italian meringue it will make it lighter and still it will taste wonderful.


Gerard,

I think in a majority of city it is illegal to bake anything from your house either cake mix or genoise. The problem is that home base decorator are just that decorator not baker.


Morgane

By Southern (Southern) on Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Pssst, W.! What's your secret technique for improving box mixes? Just being nosy here ...

By W.DeBord on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 07:22 am: Edit

Southern I like to share, but the person I got it from would not be happy if I passed it out. Why??? I will say she gets alot of recipes out of an old newsletter type of publication called "Mailbox News". Its either monthly or bimonthly. Its' geared for women who sell decorated cakes mainly from their homes. I have an older copy infront of me their address is P.O. 16208 Minneapolis, MN 55416-0208. They date way back and are still publishing. It's not geared toward pro.s' but I have gotten alot of ideas for decorating out of it. I've also gotten a few candy recipes that were quite good.
People send in photos of their cakes.Last easter I used probably 10 different ideas that I found there.
P.S. some issues are better than others. She has a subscription dating back to the 60's. I can look back through 30 years of cakes and candies etc... it's a great resource.

By W.DeBord on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 07:26 am: Edit

Morgane do you do alot of cakes? I understand the taste difference. I use shortening based frosting mainly on wedding cakes, for my ease. The people like it taste test after taste test. Go figure.

By Morgane on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 11:33 am: Edit

W.

I do a fair number of cake and I would never use crisco or mix. I find it would be deceiving the customers. I pride myself on the quality of the products and doudt the same results could be acheive with lesser products.

I can't imagine any patisseries in the area going by on mixes and criscocreme. Maybe the people here are more fin palais then they are in your country.

Not being american I have trouble understanding why you would call buttercreme something that contains ony crisco and not a trace of butter but the artificial flavouring use. Maybe you can enlight me.


Morgane

By ruth aim on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Two different things here: cake as dessert (flavour paramount) and wedding cake (show!)
For our daughter's recent wedding we contracted a classic, European-trained pastry chef (paid royally too)-- didn't want the 'frou frou' typical of English and American cakes , just a simple classic cake with roses and ivy - THAT we got, but not the cream-on-taupe icing we wanted because of difficulty tinting butter cream --- and they would not compromise!
Transportability? STRICT instructions on speed, turning corners, bumps in the road, etc. -- the bride can walk but the cake must be cushioned in goose down!!
My point: have standards, yes, but consider how the cake is going to be served -- those who specialize in weddings understand these constraints so don't turn up your nose at 'inferior methods'. Understand your market and cater to it!!

By d. on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 06:49 pm: Edit

When you guys talk about "crisco buttercream", are you talking about the straight powdered sugar, shortening and vanilla beaten in a bowl type of icing? Or do you use meringue powder like Wilton's recipe? I used to work in a bakery where the head German decorator taught me to use only French meringue buttercream(this we called "yellow") and Italian meringue buttercream(50%butter/50%Sweetex,this one we referred to as "white"). I still do quite a number of wedding cakes and use the "yellow" buttercream for fillings and the "white" buttercream for icing and piping decorations. Works out great and tastes good too. Never had a problem tinting the buttercream either.

By W.DeBord on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 10:17 pm: Edit

The recipe I use contains 50% shortening (crisco brand the least taste) and 50% butter. To that I add xxxsugar, egg white (small amount) and a modest amount of flavoring (either almond emulsion, vanilla extract or lemon emulsion depending on the cake flavor). My customers like this, they are Americans not European. They are usually most interested in the look, usually they want a rolled fondant and/or fresh flowers tastefully simple. Then the cake taste and lastly the frosting. I have had people ask me to go light on the amount of frosting. They say "I don't like alot of rich frosting". There is no right or wrong here it this is just what I find my customers want. Its their wedding, their money and their tastes. The members at my club can always tell me what they want, it's their show. They are wealthy and have traveled experiencing food far more than I ever will.

By W.DeBord on Thursday, August 19, 1999 - 10:22 pm: Edit

The recipe I use contains 50% shortening (crisco brand the least taste) and 50% butter. To that I add xxxsugar, egg white (small amount) and a modest amount of flavoring (either almond emulsion, vanilla extract or lemon emulsion depending on the cake flavor). I do not always use this buttercream it is always up to the customer. I personally like a white chocolate traditional butter cream. My customers like this, they are Americans not European. They are usually most interested in the look, usually they want a rolled fondant and/or fresh flowers tastefully simple. Then the cake taste and lastly the frosting. I have had people ask me to go light on the amount of frosting. They say "I don't like alot of rich frosting". There is no right or wrong here it this is just what I find my customers want. Its their wedding, their money and their tastes. They are wealthy and have traveled experiencing food far more than I ever will. They tell me what they want.

By jeee2 on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 09:56 am: Edit

W.Debord,

what your customers are responding to is the sugar in the butterkream, you can hide the aftertaste or mouthfeel with enough sugar.
I bet I can sell them the other way, with poured fondant instead of rolled fondant too.
It all depends on knowing the advantage of one over the other.

My wedding cake had the same frosting you use, it tastes ok but again it was hidden with a lot of sugar and vanilla, I was married in the far east and just bought the cake from a catering place.
If people would just get married in February...

Regards, Gerard

By Morgane on Friday, August 20, 1999 - 11:22 am: Edit

Ruth,

No matter how where or when a cake should be serve, it still has to be a quality product. If you want a pristine white cake go with fondant and buttercreme inside. It has a beautiful smooth look and It will taste a lot better then the criscocreme.


W.

If they want a nice smooth look fondant is definitly the way to go. What do you use in the cake then your icing or a buttercreme?


Morgane

By W.DeBord on Saturday, August 21, 1999 - 06:39 am: Edit

What ever they want. Fruit, ganache, pastry cream etc...

By Southern (Southern) on Saturday, August 21, 1999 - 07:25 pm: Edit

Oh, W., you don't have to share your "boxed cake improvement" technique with all cyberspace, but would you please tell ME? (Imagine fluttering eyelashes here a la Bambi!) Just click on my name, which will take you to my profile, which contains my email address. And I promise to send a postcard to "Mailbox News" for subscription info ...

By jeee on Saturday, August 21, 1999 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Sue,

You don't need secret recipes (but they often add pudding mix to cake mix, more fat and sugar.)

mmmmmm

Cheers, Gerard

By Southern (Southern) on Sunday, August 22, 1999 - 06:33 pm: Edit

Hey, Gerard! Not interested in a "secret recipe" so much as standing here dumbstruck that *anything* could be done to make a box mix more palatable. They just don't do a thing for me, although lots of people seem to like 'em ...

By jeee2 on Sunday, August 22, 1999 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Southern,

Your a sucker for this secret crap.
Its slop.

a non rose isn't a rose and never can be ,
no matter who eats it.

Thats a different issue than having to use it for legal reasons, the fact they like it is a blessing in disguise. To remain legal the additions ought to also be prefabricated mix.
There are no secrets among professionals.

Cheers, Gerard

By W.DeBord on Sunday, August 22, 1999 - 10:58 pm: Edit

No there are know secrets! Southern why would you bother with a recipe if you think it's all crap? Gerard is right it's slop.

By Morgane on Monday, August 23, 1999 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Mixes are not what baking is about and I feel offering them to customers is cheating them. They pay for a quality products and should get one.


Morgane

By Southern (Southern) on Monday, August 23, 1999 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Slow down, folks! I'm interested in cooking and baking of all kinds (not just haute cuisine or politically correct dogma) because what's actually being done in your field affects me personally, as someone who (a) is very allergic to many food additives, including artificial colors, flavors, and preservatives, but (b) has to live in the real world anyway, which at times does include being required to eat food prepared by other people and/or in commercial kitchens. My interest is intense, but usually academic. And, no, I'm not a food writer. On the other hand, it *was* rude of me to press for more information after my question was quite politely deflected, so please allow me to apologize to W. (Mea maxima culpa ... )

By jeee2 on Monday, August 23, 1999 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Sue,

>> (Mea maxima culpa ... ) >>

Is that latin for "its probably crap anyway?"

hehe
Go to sugarcraft, they'll tell you exactly how to do it.

By Southern (Southern) on Tuesday, August 24, 1999 - 06:40 pm: Edit

It's from the Catholic liturgy, you big brute. Specifically the part that says "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa," which translates as "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault." It's an admission of sin and acceptance of my personal responsibility for it. (Which sin? Hanging out online with food snobs like you, of course ... ;-) Now I'll *read* almost anything, including cereal boxes. Just can't eat most cereals without going into low Earth orbit, thass all.

By jeee2 on Tuesday, August 24, 1999 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Sue,
>> with food snobs like you, of course ... ;-) >>]

mi digustibus non est disputantum.
I'm not a food snob.( just had beans on toast)

Cheers, Gerard

By Nancy W. Nolan on Monday, October 04, 1999 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Well guys and gals I'm going to throw my hat in the ring.......Take a regular cake mix, add eggs and water/or milk (your choice, I use the water) then instead of adding the oil.....just mix it with the eggs and water until it is almost done, then add 1 stick of margarine/or butter that is softened.....i prefer the butter......believe me this is sinful.....and so delicious......

By W.DeBord on Tuesday, October 05, 1999 - 09:44 am: Edit

Nancy this makes sense, you sub. butter for oil. Don't you first cream your butter then add the rest?

Do you ever look at the small booklets that the companies publish and sell at the grocery stores? I picked one up last night, it was from Duncan Heinz. It has ways to vary the use of their product other than following the box instructions. I've tried several recipes from several books and have been fairly pleased with them.

I know it's hard to believe, and even harder to get other pastry chefs to believe this. But I'm with you.

By b on Sunday, April 30, 2000 - 08:33 am: Edit

To carrot cake mix, per mix, add 3 cups grated carrots 1 tsp cinnamon, 1/4 tsp ginger, 1/4 tsp cloves, 1/4 tsp nutmeg, 1 cup of nuts, and you will have a carrot cake to die for.