Just a thought after looking thru some magazines, I wondered if we could apply it to this forum covering more professional chef situations.

Sometimes I have a quick short question or come across a way to do something I didn't read in a book and thought someone else might be able to use this tip also.

Example, I love a tip tj gave: freeze your macaroons they release nicely that way.


I'm not sure how to do is with-out people getting side tracked or stuck on one idea for the whole tread.? Any one else interested? I'll do a few examples...

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 08:48 am: Edit

Tip 1: a few drops of lemon juice mixed throughly into your sugar helps it melt perfectly with-out clumping.

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 08:53 am: Edit

Help 1: I can't think of a short cut...I have a cookie that has three doughs baked together to make one cookie. Choc. chip, peanut butter and chocolate. I need a easy way to portion them because I don't have time to scoop 3 times per cookie. I'm thinking maybe if I "stripe" a large pastry bag with the doughs it may work but that has problems too. Then I need a clean bag each time I refill, so it doesn't bleed together too much. Can anyone think of a better way?????

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 08:56 am: Edit

Tip 2: I've been freezing my marzipan garnishes to hold them and then I don't have the problem of sticking to the bottom of my container when I lift them out and distorting the image.

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 08:57 am: Edit

Response to Help #1: Well you could try this...

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:02 am: Edit

Help #2: I want to display sunflower looking cookies that are on sticks in a large clay pot for Mothers day, for my childrens buffet table. I can't think of something strong enough to hold the "flower" cookies upright with a neat/clean release when they grab the stick of the cookie.

Help, any ideas?

By jeee2 on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:32 am: Edit

On the tri color cookie I'd roll them out and layer them on a tray, slice them , seperate and bake, Might need a bit of eggwash to stick them if theres too much flour.

A trickle of water under the sheet paper is a quick way to get macaroons off, when the customer is waiting ...tap tap tap...(are they done yet?).
This is done right from the oven so it steams the mac from underneath, another quick method is flip the paper and spray the paper w/ water or wipe with a wet rag.

I only dream of a 2 door freezer.

By Kathyf (Kathyf) on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:55 am: Edit

For the sunflower cookies - You could use foam for silk flowers (not for fresh, it's messy and would stick to your stick). I've covered the foam with a thin layer of melted chocolate and sprinkled with crushed chocolate wafers or oreos before it hardens. If you don't put your cookies in while the chocolate is still soft, "drill" a little starter hole with a sharp tool to keep the chocolate from cracking.

By momoreg on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Strange coincidence: Today, I was looking in my files for a macaroon recipe that I haven't used in years. They're the kind that Gerard is describing, with the 2 dome shapes stuck together. For the life of me, I couldn't find the recipe. Does anyone have a good French macaroon recipe with almond flour, whpped egg whites, sugar, and flour...not the kind with almond paste or coconut? I would appreciate your help, so I don't waste my time with proportions.

By momoreg on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 03:28 pm: Edit

W.,
Re: the tricolor cookies, I was thinking the same thing Gerard described. In fact, I made something like that today, but it was a stiffer dough than typical choc. chip. Different flavor, but same concept. They looked pretty.

By jeee2 on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 05:42 pm: Edit

Momoreg,

Dunno, I've never had the luxury of almond flour and its not in the books I have.
I have made them by whipping the whites with sugar then adding the almond paste slowly but prefer the rub method w/ almond paste, adding the whites last.
I've got 6 doz on order for passover so far, looks like someone is going to have sore hands after next week.

By Panini (Panini) on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 08:07 pm: Edit

DeBord,
the cookies, if you can pipe them why not pipe strips of each, retard, put the three together, sinch with parchment. store and cut as needed.
ah sh--, I just flipped back and just repeated Gerard. What a moron!

Large lollipop sticks, you could press them right into your cookies, cover the sticks with strips of foil. let them eat them like lollypops. Cookie bouquet is makinf millions on them right now.

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 08:45 pm: Edit

NO one has a tip? or a question? Just me throwing them out? Come on.....

If you do and you reference them with a number you can scan quickly to find a response.Provided the person notes what item their responding to. Or does that show my personality too much, I do like organization more than you can believe (you should see my recipe file, almost perfection? :)

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 08:49 pm: Edit

Help#3: I came across a Pillsbury cookbook from 1953 where they have an ingredient called homongized spry (my first word is mis-spelled but the second it correct) what is that? I'm thinking margarine, did it come out around that year?

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Response to question #2: I am baking them with the stick in place (done that before). The foam idea might work but I don't want to "dirty" the end of the stick the kid holds. Maybe just crushed oreos over foam will do.

Hey, want does the Cookie bouquet use?

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Momoreg I have a nice macaroon recipe with almond flour. I'd have to bring it home from work to post it. It doesn't mound like the almond paste ones, it's slightly flatter, but very tastie. Also have a great coconut choc. chip and chocolate coconut that are like eating candy. Macaroons are very popular with my older customers!

P.S. Gerard I use to do the release your way. Not any more tjs' is perfect and a breeze. Try it, no kidding you'll like it also.

By Ramodeo (Ramodeo) on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Response to Help#3 - My mom says Spry was a brand name, it was just like Crisco. She said they also made a spray product like Pam. And I think magarine came out sometime between the world wars and got real popular with the rationing of butter during WW2. My mom says she remembers having to mix together the yellow coloring with the fat by squishing it inside a plastic bag. She and her siblings played catch with the bag to get the job done!

By Ramodeo (Ramodeo) on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:06 pm: Edit

W.DeBord - Those cooking tips in the magazines crack me up! Every once in a great while I see one that new to me, but most of the time I look at them and go "you mean everybody doesn't already do that?"....

I like this idea, tho. I can't think of any questions right now, but I'm sure I will.

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:07 pm: Edit

Margarine was invented/developed by Napoleon's food scientist to provide his troops with a butter substitute.

By Ramodeo (Ramodeo) on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:12 pm: Edit

Wow, I guess that's a little before my mom's time! ;-)

Was Napoleons version really a hydrogenated fat?

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Response to help #3: thanks, now I can try a recipe from that book!

By W.DeBord on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Tip #3: I just love those new cheap (3 for 2.50)plastic containers from Glad Ware to store my garnishes in. They stack nicely also.


Help#4: Can't find really great containers to store baked items in. My old ones are going and the new ones we got stink. Volume like 100 cookies. Plastic that won't break easily, lids that snap cleanly closed. Of course they need to be cheap since we just got ripped off by another company.

By Campchef (Campchef) on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Response to Help #2. Clear glass marbles look nice and hold the sticks straight up, no mess.

By Panini (Panini) on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 10:07 pm: Edit

Martha would probably fill the pot with white or choco cake mix and bake.
I make apple and cherry strudel. The apple ,I mix with cake crumbs,stiff apples,pine nuts, gold raisins etc. It's fine. I need help with the cherry, It will not hold it's height after baking. I use r.s.p. stiff cherry,cake crumbs, but after baking they do not stand up,whether I use pulled or puff dough. My assist. suggested I use a strip of cake under but I did not like the look.
Any help?

By Dominique (Dominique) on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 03:07 am: Edit

jeee2, whenever I need almond flour I grind almonds in a Robocoup (not to the point that they get oily though) and then sift through a screen. You end up with a lot of larger almond pieces though so unless you have a use for them it might not be worth it. :)

By Dominique (Dominique) on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 03:09 am: Edit

Help #5 I've got a ton of edible flowers that are going to go bad before I get a chance to use them. I was thinking about candying them but can't find a method. Any ideas?

By Dominique (Dominique) on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 03:12 am: Edit

Help #6 OK, not really a Help question, more one of curiosity. My chef and I were wondering just what the egg whites do to change the texture so much when we add them to our sorbet base to change it to a sherbert. We were thinking the protien may affect the crystalization of the ice? :)

By jeee2 on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 05:31 am: Edit

Dominique,

<almond flour I grind almonds in a Robocoup<

OK sounds great, I need 50 lbs, anytime your ready.!

By jeee2 on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 05:35 am: Edit

Dominique,

depending where you work you can make a base for ice creams and sorbets with the flowers, just boil some syrup and drop the flowers in to steep.
You can use this tea anytime, I've done violet sorbet with it.

By jeee2 on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 05:38 am: Edit

ChefTim says,
<Margarine was invented/developed by Napoleon's food scientist to provide his troops with a butter substitute. <<

did he have access to hydrogen?

By W.DeBord on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 08:03 am: Edit

Response #6: I'm not one of the science people here but I know from experience that the white don't stop crystalization if it sits in the freezer abit.

Response Help #5: I've made edible flowers one than one way. Which way are you writing about?

By momoreg on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 08:10 am: Edit

Help #7:
This format seems like it could work if it didn't produce such long threads. This thread could go on for years, and you'd never be able to refer back to a conversation, unless you could remember the #. Perhaps, W., we could do what you're proposing, but separate the threads. P.S., thanks for the recipe, if you remember, I'll be waiting for it. Gerard, I haven't done that type of macaroon with almond paste; is that what is more commonly used? I originally got my recipe from a French chef that I apprenticed with...and it had almond FLOUR.

By W.DeBord on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 08:16 am: Edit

Panini/Strudel: Pulled dough? I hope your meaning Phyllo, I never used puff dough for strudel...really? When I use too much filling with phyllo dough it will sag. But when I hold back from over filling it holds shape. Are we talking the same thing? What about mixing the cherry with another fruit that doesn't bake down? Cherry apple or cherry pear, alittle almond extract?


P.S. Martha wouldn't be that stupid. She'd use a day old rock hard scratch white cake in the pot instead! Sorry you opened the door! HA:)

By W.DeBord on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 08:27 am: Edit

Panini, Gerard and tj with all your experience you three should have some brilliant short cuts/tips you've come across. I hope you'll be kind enough to share?

I hope the fear of "being made fun of" is not going to stop anyone from getting what they can out of interacting. With ANY question or tip being acceptable! It's not stopping me and I hope it won't stop anyone else....

By W.DeBord on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 08:30 am: Edit

Momoreg great point, can you start us in a better style/format etc... or maybe George could sort this out to make sense?

By momoreg on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 12:51 pm: Edit

I don't think a system where only regulars know the score would work very well for newcomers. Otherwise, I'd say, maybe we can start a thread that is dedicated to tips and tricks of the trade only, any tangents off the subject can be put into separate areas. Also , people who aren't as organized, I think, would find it difficult to keep so much structure in their postings.

By jeee2 on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 01:00 pm: Edit

If you want to try almond paste macaroons, the only thing to remember is equal parts sugar/alm paste, rub with the paddle on slow speed.
Only rub til it takes the lumps out, further rubbing w/ the paddle grinds alum from the paddle and turns the batch grey. Add whites slowly just until you get a paste you can JUST actually bag by hand w/ lARGE PLAIN TUBE, the longer you mix it the more fluid it becomes as the sugar dissolves, this can work against you if you walk away, it turns to slop after 5 minutes. I've no idea how much whites it takes,
I use the frozen from carton type and it always takes "just enough." They are a pain to bag out because the batter is on the stiff side.
Bag em out, press flat with a wet rag or cloth, dbl tray to bake. It makes a slightly chewey mac.
These are the best I've ever had, of course I've never had any other types.! ha!
I tried scooping them but it just doesn't work.

By jeee2 on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 01:25 pm: Edit

<you three should have some brilliant short cuts/tips you've come across. <

In reality its just the way we HAVE to work.
A lot of the tips in Pastry Art and DEsign mag are not worth bothering with (such as spraying the inside of a pastry bag w/ pam) almost all the others are pretty much common knowledge.
But theres obviously a big need out there.
If I had to do everything "by the book" the day wouldn't have enough hours to get half of it done.
Another thought crossed me mind here, the classic recipes in the French Pastry Series is only the minimal starting point. From there , quality and technique only goes up and becomes refined.
At least thats how its supposed to work.

By Yankee on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 01:34 pm: Edit

This recipe seems similar in method to the tant por tant & egg white macaroons that I have tried. The only time it really worked well was when I had a new blade in the robo coup to make the TPT. Then the prep guys got a hold of the blade...

Have you ever let your macaroons sit out for a while to get a crust on them before baking? Do you use steam in the oven? What temp do you use? Convection fan speed? Payard suggested using old whites that had been left on top of the oven for a few days before use. Sounds nasty, but no doubt it works.

Thanks.

PS: Isn't a forum full of tips and help. No? Why are all of these different topics on the same thread? Each topic/tip/question should have it's own thread, that's organization, er, mise en place. I understand what you are trying to do, but why try to fix something that isn't really broken?

By Yankee on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 01:37 pm: Edit

This recipe seems similar in method to the tant por tant & egg white macaroons that I have tried. The only time it really worked well was when I had a new blade in the robo coup to make the TPT. Then the prep guys got a hold of the blade...

Have you ever let your macaroons sit out for a while to get a crust on them before baking? Do you use steam in the oven? What temp do you use? Convection fan speed? Payard suggested using old whites that had been left on top of the oven for a few days before use. Sounds nasty, but no doubt it works.

Thanks.

PS: Isn't a forum full of tips and help. No? Why are all of these different topics on the same thread? Each topic/tip/question should have it's own thread, that's organization, er, mise en place. I understand what you are trying to do, but why try to fix something that isn't really broken?

By Yankee on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Oops. How about we fix this "server error" thing first, and put an end to double postings...

By Cheftim (Cheftim) on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 02:16 pm: Edit

From britannica.com
The French chemist H. Mège-Mouriès developed margarine in the late 1860s and was given recognition in Europe and a patent in the United States in 1873. His manufacturing method was simplified in the United States into a process in which the melted fat blend was churned with milk and salt, chilled to solidify the mixture, kneaded to a plastic consistency, and packaged, all by means of the standard butter-working equipment of the time. The edible fats used have varied widely, the trend having been from the animal fats predominant in early use to the vegetable fats, principally cottonseed, soybean, coconut, peanut, and corn oils, and, more recently, palm oil. During the late 1950s an increased interest in the relation of polyunsaturated fats and oils to health hastened the shift to corn, safflower, and sunflower oils as the fat ingredients of margarine. Whale oil has been widely used in Europe but was never common in the United States.

By W.DeBord on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Lots of thoughts...sometimes starting a whole topic is silly. Maybe not since we tend to get off into tangents all the time?


Gerard you have forgotten what it's like to not be you. We have some people less experienced here that don't know what you know, was my point. They do want to learn but sometimes we talk over their heads or make fun of things we now take for granted as common knowledge. Sometimes don't you come up with a new idea and think "boy if I had only thought of that sooner", or "hey, look what I figured out (and brag abit)"?


Yankee your point is right and obvious too, it's not broken. I kind was trying to open things up, for quick silly questions, quick problem/quick fix. Trying to prevent getting off track for simple ideas. Otherwise I thought things would continue as usual, starting new treads. The numbers were for a quick reference they don't have to go inorder. Oh, well....

By Pam (Pam) on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 04:36 pm: Edit

momoreg,
I'm looking for the macaroons we used to make.These sound very simila rexcept it uses seperate sugar & almond flour instead of tpt. We released them the way gerard did with pouring water in corner under paper. it doesn't whip the whites which is the same way my lost recipe was.
450g sugar
225g ground almonds
about 6 eggwhites
MIx together & pipe out. I always dab top with a cold water wet finger.We dusted with that coarse sugar. bake 320f for 25 min,(I don't remember what we used for the convection oven.)This one gives the above mentioned hint of of turning over paper & moistening bottom. I've used the valrhona orange bittersweet chocolate for ganache to stick these together with,its a good tasting chocolate. gianduja ganache is my favorite( I love that gianduja stuff)

By Dominique (Dominique) on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Help #5... regarding the edible flowers, the sorbet sounds like a good idea except for 2 problems. One is that I once tried to make a lavendar sorbet, seeping the flowers in syrup and all that, but after a few days, the sorbet scoops were growing crystals.. it's done that to me with mint too, really strange.... when I use a fruit base, no problem. Second problem is that these flowers aren't that flavorful, I was hoping to find a way to incorporate them for their color, not so much their taste. ??? .... jeee, 50# of almond flour? ACK!!

By Mikeh (Mikeh) on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Re: Help#5...perhaps the pectin in the fruit sorbet keeps the sugar syrup in suspension. You might try adding gelatin to the flower sorbet to produce the same effect.

By momoreg on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Gerard,
That recipe you provided, I use all the time. It's very versatile. The one I'm thinking of has whipped egg whites, and is lighter. But it's the same technique, with the water under the paper. I never considered trying that technique with the almond paste macaroons. Yes, Pam, your recipe is pretty close. I'll try it. Thanks to both of you.

By jeee2 on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 06:43 pm: Edit

<During the late 1950s an increased interest in the relation of polyunsaturated fats and oils to health hastened the shift to corn, safflower, and sunflower oils <

But the hydrogen treatment makes it just as artery clogging as the animal fat oleo. no?
or as Homer Simpson says "why is it that everything thats tasty has to be bad for you".

By jeee2 on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 06:57 pm: Edit

<<Gerard you have forgotten what it's like to not be you. <<

No , I have to train my young skull full of mush every day. Today he made me a puff dough soft and sticky like brioche, who knows what surprises he has in store tomorrow.
Familiarity breeds contempt, thats why few expert bakers write books, good books are more often written by writers who are struggling to learn and document their difficulties.
But its impossible to know what soemone else doesn't know, theres no secrets , just things you don't know.

By Panini (Panini) on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 09:26 pm: Edit

W.DeBord,
Yes of course I use puff for strudel, some of my customers, like the puff. The others prefer pulled dough. If you don't know what pulled dough is I will board a plane with my seasoned tablecloth and head your way. It is the most team building project you can do. When I was corp. I used pulled strudel dough to get a kitchen to work as one. Actually I would never think to use phyllo. I may try that. I have seen it, never tried it.

By tj on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 09:30 pm: Edit

i have a short comment about the macaroons.
they are originaly made with tpt of almond flour and p.sugar, plus whipped egg white and unwhipped egg whites.although i love the one with almond paste as well.if you remember the thread i started about your favorite equipments, i mentioned my beloved stone wheele grinder.how i love my grinder.its a true love affair! this wonderful machine will turn your almond+sugar or almond alone in to the finest almond flour in 3-5 minutes.pass it some more in the grinder and you have almond paste.do the same with hazelnuts or pistachio or walnuts and you have different praline pastes.i even made in it an incredible pine nut praline paste.i`ll bet not many of you ever used a pine nut praline paste for flavoring creams, mousses and ice cream.it is so wonderful i am having tough time understanding why no one makes this kind of a machine in the usa?

By tj on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 09:44 pm: Edit

my recipe for macaroons is not a simple one , but makes a wonderful, light and soft texture macaroon.it is a modern twist of the classic macaroon that is called the "macarons parisiens" with some improvements:
600 gr almond flour
1040 gr powder sugar sifted
40 gr apricot jelly
160 raw egg whites
300 egg whites for whipping
dash of cream of tartar
200 sugar (for whipping the whites)
sift together almond+p.sugar.make sure it is dry .(you can put is in a very slow oven to dry.about 120f.) mix apricot jelly+raw whites.add the almond+sugar.mix.whip the whites+sugar+tartar to very stiff foam.mix well 70% of the stiff whites with the almond mixture.then fold gently the remaining whites.this is a semi runny mixture that can make a "ribbon" like an egg yolk+sugar batter.
pipe on silpats (no.8 tip).let dry for 20 min to make crust. then bake.

By tj on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 09:52 pm: Edit

the baking is a little tricky.in a convection oven bake for 2 minutes at 210c.then reduce to 170c. for 6 minutes more.the point is not to get any coloration on the crust.just to stabalize the macaron and dry it more.take it out and freeze for an easy release.sandwich with different fillings.
this is a very vesetile recipe . in france we add some color too.so you make raspberry, lemond, chocolate, coconut,hazelnut,mint,anis,pistachio etc macarons with all kinds of fillings.
this recipe may seem dificult to some but i think it is a very good one.with prolonged shelf life.

By W.DeBord on Sunday, April 16, 2000 - 12:19 am: Edit

Sounds great tj I'll have to try yours! Does it have to be jelly, not preserves?

By momoreg on Sunday, April 16, 2000 - 08:59 am: Edit

Looks good. I like the addition of fruit into the mix. I'll try them on Tues. Thank you, Tj.

By George (George) on Sunday, April 16, 2000 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Hi Folks,

I've set up a separate area just for this concept.

Please post tips and tricks in that forum.

I'll try to move these over in the next week or so.

Thanks for the sugestion!

All the Best,

George