so this place im working in, the chefs last day is sun. the following sat the sous chef is leaving
I'm leaving on the 31, aug. and then theres half the banquet servers, and some more from other areas. you'd think these people would wake up and smell the coffee, and realize its burning.
one of the best shops i've had, windows and everything. my own walk-in. and all they had to do was just leave us alone. why is that so hard for management to do. too many dumbasses in this biz. my 0.02.
peace

By Panini (Panini) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 03:21 am: Edit

chefspike, when people finally realize that this industry is the people running it and not the physical structures, we might get some respect. People tell me my business is worth a fortune, but its the people that run it that make it worth a fortune. Take the people away and all that is left is 10cent on the dollar crap.
I know your old enough to understand this, I left the industry for the reason you state, it seemed like every 6mths I was having to prove myself to some kid out of cornell food service program. Every single one wanted to reinvent the wheel, it just got so old I had to leave. There is very little management around anymore that is not bonus driven. Hell, years ago we were customer driven, we were all supported by the tip system.
Remember, we never used anything but cash tip to buy a beer back then, If you told me I'd purchase a cold one on plastic, I would have laughed you out the door.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 09:07 am: Edit

ChefSpike, read the thread "Is there really a labor shortage" in the Great Hall, it is a good example of what you are talking about. I'll post on it to bring it up to the boards today.

By The Baker on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 12:54 pm: Edit

CHefspike.

The husband and wife that own the place i work..
drive me crazy.. none of them really knows baking but they are always questioning me on everything.
one day i blew up and told them to leave me alone and that even when I was an extern during school my work was never questioned as much as they do.
and If they dont respect what i do I will leave..

that gave me a few weeks of peace.....
but then its right back to the questioning man they drive me crazy...

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 01:59 pm: Edit

to Panini, Manny and the Baker, thanks....
for your imput. I've never read that guy but I will now. So now I'm stuck in a city thats 5 years behind in Pastry, well, in food in general
and moving to a cheaper crib to save money. As far as work, well theres a wallgreens down the street and another kind of store that I will most likely go and apply. I'm not crying, cause I realize that I have my part in this also. But man i'm telling you, this place is one screwed up place, and it does not have to be. I'm going to go back to LA., when I can, and find work there.
But not in this field, not any more, I've had enough of 4am-noon, and then back again at 3pm-8pm
or 9pm. No one seams to know what the friggin classics are anymore, no one cares, and the funny thing is they don't have to. You can go to epicur-crap.com and it's all right there. good or bad.
you don't have to know how anything works anymore, just point and click or turn the page. We have developed a generation of cooks and pastry people that have no understanding of even the most basic.One asked me what cream of tarter does, one asked me who escoffier was!!!, and it goes on, and on, and on. ok I'm crazy now, time to shut up.
peace.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 02:24 pm: Edit

ChefSpike, you can open a restaurant now with no cooks and a few microwaves, just someone who can follow label directions, even though finding someone who can read is hard to do at times also.
Cooking from scratch has gone by the way of the typewriter, as an industry we have uneducated the public about what good food is. If it is not loaded w/ MSG, Sodium, Blue or Red food dye, it can't be good!
My kid likes to go to a bagel place here in town, Moe's, a chain, they actually cook their eggs, out of a quart container onto a 2 ounce plastic container nuke it for 4 mins. and Voila! yellow frisbees. I go to a Mom and Pop bagel place, cooked fresh, real eggs and my kid says Daddy, these don't taste good! Those are the best bagels man, double baked cheese is my fav, w/ eggs, more cheddar & bacon, it's gotta be 3000 calories, but damn it's good!!!

By Peachcreek (Peachcreek) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 07:29 pm: Edit

"There are only two truly great restaurants in the world. One only exists only in our mind, the other we haven't worked at yet."-Peachcreek
Its out there somewhere.

By cyber-speck on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 07:49 pm: Edit

spike,you seem to have a boner for people who point and click or turn a page. why is that? how else would you expect kids coming up to gain understanding in their chosen field. what? your about 48 and you bop around to different places every 6months or so. i'm gonna be real honest here with you; you are a first class loser. there are sucessful people in this industry and i guess you ain't one of them. so if you leave the industry why don't you go back to school and get an education,but i guess that would be "too hard". hell,learn to be a better pastry chef or whatever. chances are you don't know it all,also you probably aren't the best there is and not the most productive. ya gotta do the work if ya want a better job and more money. my $0.11

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 08:29 pm: Edit

ok.
thanks
Peace.

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 09:18 pm: Edit

oh and the chef, a young talented man found a new job, and the sous chef another young talented man found a job, me I'm moving, theres nothing here that will pay even close to what I was getting.
But what ever I do, or where I go, I know that I went there with the expectations of holding up my end while the house held up theres.
cyber-speck, you'd never say that to my face and you certainly don't know me, or my background. My point was any one, kids or not that don't have some formal training don't know how things work. when something goes wrong or turns out not correct, the training one gets from a proper education helps them find the cause and fix it, correct it. that was taught in the school I went to, and i'm sure it's taught in others. Apprenticships today, from what I gather and are told, lack in this area. why?, don't ask me, I don't know why. But when we shove aside the basic's and the fundalmentals, and don't learn the classic's, we are creating a void in the educational stran. One that many, and I'm sure even you try to fill. In todays kitchen or pastry shop we are understafted to the point where some days its all you can do to get throught it, add that to somebody who learned to cook/bake by getting taught by others who also were not trained and there lies the problem. In some parts of the country bakers who with no formal ed. but can bake and do production are called "barn Bakers", why I don't know, and the problem again is if someone is working just for the pay check, and feels he is worth more, and does not get it, the spark that might have been there, goes out.
One more is lost. I don't know what you do, or what position you hold, but I know that if you are a chef with employees/cooks, the ones with fomal training and education should be able to follow your lead because of what they were taught. I think this somes it up for me....
Cooking...Means carefulness and inventiveness, willingness, and readiness of appliance; it means French art, Teutonic persistency, English thoroughness, and Arabian hospitality; and also it means the economy of our grandmothers-much testing, no wasting, and the SCIENCE OF THE MODERN CHEMIST.
Author...Herman A. Breithaupt.
Pray I never meet you. Thanks.

By ChefBitch'n on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 11:34 pm: Edit

No worries, mate. It helps sometimes to get out of the biz for a bit and catch some air.

It's hard to find passionate people these days, or even anyone who understands scratch baking and building blocks of knowledge.

Pay no mind to cyber-bitter-affected-robert-speckles. Jeeze, talking about boners, are we? Home alone on Saturday night...?

By pan on Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 11:43 pm: Edit

hey spike, can you immagine meeting cyberspect in a ginmill after a hard night like the ones we use to have in NYC. Someone would be missing a pastry cook ,and I use the term lightly, the next day.
He or she is going to be honest with you and call you a looser. This jerk could be biggest badass but I'd have your back. Can you imagine him or her telling Leona, I must be honest with you LOL.
This namecalling jackass could'nt carry our tools.
I understand what you are talking about completely. That's why I had to get into my own thing. There were to many cyber-spec's around with absolutely no respect for the classic formulas and the classic chef's. Good luck to you.
Jeff
Manny, good article

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 12:15 am: Edit

Thanks, Panini. I like you more every post I read. I also respect your opinions. Just so you know!
Manny

By Panini (Panini) on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 06:13 am: Edit

I know ,as I yours,Manny, thanks, but it is really not the kind of person I am.Ten years ago I would chew them up and spit them out. You know, this is not all in our heads. In the retail place I put out some eclairs one day, just to fill the cold case.Whipped up some shoe paste and some pastrycream etc. The young customers asked why the eclairs and the cream horns were keep cold.The older customers asked what color the filling was in the eclair. When I replied it was fresh custard and real whipped cream filling their eyes lit up.
Needless to say we sell out everyday at 2.50 a pop. Who knew?
The bakery business is not rocket science, fresh items made with real products. It's funny because when the customers see our little bakery and try our product, They ask if this bakery is owned by New Yorkers or somebody from up north.
THIS INDUSTRY IS BEING RAPED OF ALL IT'S LITTLE FAMILY BUSINESSES!!When I say franchises I also include all the financial groups of Dentists and Doctors who get together and throw money at the TV type chefs. These businesses are usually sucked up into some type of monopoly anyway.
The "bottom line" has forced all the newer, less educated customers to accept mediocrity. They are forced into a newer generation of food. I have some fine dining customers that I wholesale to. You should see some of the crap these people are lining up to eat. Basic sauces made in the back from mixes, then used on the line for a la minute sauces made in a drink mixer. No one can tell me different, I talk to the station cooks in some of these 4 star places. Only some of them know what a basic mother sauce is, but couldn't make one. To them a reduction is a sauce in a skillet full boil till it's half gone.THIS IS A GOOD BET!!!!
I'LL BET SOMEBODY THAT I CAN GO INTO THE COUPLE OF 4-5 STAR RESTAURANTS IN MY ARES AND ASK THE SAUCIER TO BRING MY UP SOME STOCK AND BUILD ME A RAFT TO CLEAN IT UP. I'LL BET ONE WEEKS PAY THAT THERE WILL BE NO MORE THAN 1 WHO KNOWS WHAT I'M EVEN TALKING ABOUT!!! ANY TAKERS??
Jeff
ps: Don't even bother to post " the times are changing crap"

By ImDaChef on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit

Man I haven't seen a raft in years. Lost art Panini...sigh.