This is just a simple statement and was just wondering if things are the same down south of the border.Is it just me or are the large well known schools producing nothing but over trained cooks with bad attitudes that expect to walk out and make70k. After all my years in this buisnees i have never had such a hard time find motivated cooks that are actually willing to make the sacrifices that are neccisary to actually survive in this industry.Just an observation but save your 50k's you would have spent on that education it will never get you what a year or two in a good kitchen with a good chef will.Over schooled grads are adime a dozen work on your actual cooking skills and maybe you'll make it

By Augiewren (Augiewren) on Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 09:18 pm: Edit

Here, here! I couldn't agree more. I'm sick of hearing, "I'm a CIA grad", and then watching them waste food, mistreat fellow workers, use ingredients for one dish that aren't part of the regular inventory and make something ridiculous out of them, and generally not know their a** from a hole in the ground about working and managing a real live restaurant. Give me someone with 5 or 10 years experience "in the trenches" over a cooking school dilettente any day.
Dave

By Vatel (Vatel) on Saturday, September 16, 2000 - 11:05 pm: Edit

A recent culinary school graduate is on the first day of a new job.His new chef walks up to him looks at him and points to a broom in the corner. To which the graduate replies in a pained voice"But I just graduated from chef's school" To which the chef replies " Dang do we have to show you guys how to do everything"
I graduated from J&W but I agree that good experience outweighs a formal education but a combonation of the two is best.

By Bakerboy (Bakerboy) on Sunday, September 17, 2000 - 12:32 am: Edit

I would rather be a teacher in culinary school. I think you learn more that way, and it would be a lot more fun than working in a restaurant. Its a waste of time and money to go to culinary school, if you are going there to help yourself get a job. I went to get a Culinary Certificate, and it didn't help me get a job at all. It was the most fun I ever had going to school though. I would do it all over again just for the fun of it. I wish I could be teacher or teachers aid at a culinary school. I live in the sticks though, and I think you need to get more schooling to do something like that. I think I am to old to go back to school though.

By Panini (Panini) on Sunday, September 17, 2000 - 09:10 am: Edit

To all who think that Culinary Schools are a waste of time.
EDUCATION IS ONLY A WASTE OF TIME IF YOU LET IT BE !!!! You get out what you put in.
The facility doesn't matter, it could be CIA, JW,
continuing ed, etc. You need the basics! If you choose to rely on work experience alone, chances are you will we a clone of those individuals. The difference between a great cook and a chef, in my opinion, is a chef, knows the basics and can put out fires, be creative, even if its to fix mistakes, he's 24-7 in the teaching mode.
just my 2cent rant.
panini

By Larrydalinekook (Larrydalinekook) on Monday, September 18, 2000 - 01:13 am: Edit

Look, an education isn't a ticket to a great job, but it helps. This business isn't the same as it was twenty or thirty years ago. For better or worse, the proliferation of culinary schools and degrees has made the industry more professional and getting a degree can give you a head start. I worked my way up the ladder, like in the "Old Days," but I don't think it's that easy any more.
You might need to go to a glorified trade school.

By Ramodeo (Ramodeo) on Monday, September 18, 2000 - 08:52 am: Edit

Larrydalinekook- you've got the best name I've seen on this forum! :-)

By Ungarot (Ungarot) on Tuesday, September 19, 2000 - 08:47 pm: Edit

I may as well add my opinion. I live in Canada and "watch" what goes on in the U.S. with a mixture of mild disgust and envy. I dont say this in a really nasty way, but I cant believe that someone would spend what would be equal to 70,000$ CAN to "learn" to cook when the provincial government here payed me to go to college. This was coupled with the experience that I was gaining at the time while employed under a Chef. In total my apprenticeship was 6000 hours and my Patissier requirements were an additional 7000 hours. Well worth it. I admit that my instructors werent Jacques Pepin or Torres, but I know how to run a profitable kitchen with a modicum of inventivenes.

The envy part is that there seems to be unlimited funds for chefs in the States as opposed to Canada and I sometimes (just sometimes) think that my skills would be better appreciated and.... but then there is the whole gun thing and that is another story.....

By Donna (Donna) on Friday, September 22, 2000 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Please........ Not all Canadians "milk the System"
Donna

By Chefrick (Chefrick) on Friday, September 22, 2000 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Donna,
What is your major malfunction? You seem to be an authority on any and every subject, what a blessing that must be! You are a legend in your own mind,oops! what I meant to say was time.

By Ungarot (Ungarot) on Friday, September 22, 2000 - 08:03 pm: Edit

Donna, havent you ever heard of the apprenticeship system? The idea is that you work for your employer, the ministry of training sends you to school to formalise your education and you commit to working for the employer for the agreed amount of time. The end result is that you have been a contributing member of the workforce and society, and you Donna have access to employees who have reached a level of competency as set out by industry and government. I never thought that I "milked the system" and with the amount that I pay on my relatively hefty(by my standards) salary in taxes I have paid for that schooling many times (when you consider it against the taxes I would have paid on minimum wage at Macdonalds).

By Donna (Donna) on Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 10:18 am: Edit

I can't make it on this formum as often as I like due to the fact that I have to run my business.
I guess I am from the old school, whereas hard work really does pay off.
I have no problem working through a government programme, as long as you pay back.
A fool I'm not. A respected owner-operator I am.
I get fed up with the moaners and groaner who think the world owes them a living. Now who's the fool?
Work 20 hour days for a couple of years, don't take a wage because you believe in yourself and then, you will have the right to moan(if you can find the time)
Some people are so busy looking for recognition, that they get swallowed up by their own Narcissusism.
Do you know any owners of MacDonalds? Now your talking Big Bucks!
Donna

By Donna (Donna) on Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 10:19 am: Edit

I can't make it on this formum as often as I like due to the fact that I have to run my business.
I guess I am from the old school, whereas hard work really does pay off.
I have no problem working through a government programme, as long as you pay back.
A fool I'm not. A respected owner-operator I am.
I get fed up with the moaners and groaner who think the world owes them a living. Now who's the fool?
Work 20 hour days for a couple of years, don't take a wage because you believe in yourself and then, you will have the right to moan(if you can find the time)
Some people are so busy looking for recognition, that they get swallowed up by their own Narcissusism.
Do you know any owners of MacDonalds? Now your talking Big Bucks!
Donna

By Bakerboy (Bakerboy) on Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Donna, what is your problem? If you don't like your job quit it then..I guess we all can't be as great and loyal and hard working as you...Maybe you could be our role model?..By the way I think you have lost respect on this entire website...You've lost mine anyway...

By Panini (Panini) on Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Owning a McDonalds has nothing to do with anything. You must first be a success to own one. Money makes money.
Owning your own business and comming up the hard way should not make you criticle and moaning, unless your not doing it the right way.
You need to sit down with your CPA and figure out a way to draw a paycheck or find something else to do.
Work to live, not live to work!
Sell your business, put up 1.9 mill. with a guarenteed 18 month payback , buy a McDonalds and you'll be happy, not envious.
panini

By Kchef (Kchef) on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 08:21 am: Edit

It's not suppose to be about the money!{I think I have had a total of 30 days off this year, its Sept now. I am not required to be in my kitchen all the time, I choose to. Sure on a salary the less you work the more you make. But that only pertains to a financially oriented mind. Success is measured by ones accomplishments, not their bank statement. I have never had luck with fresh from school employees. American culinary schools should do nothing but teach the basic physics of food and food safety, and let the students develop the real skills from the chefs they will work for.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 11:20 am: Edit

"Sure on a salary the less you work the more you make. But that only pertains to a financially oriented mind. Success is measured by ones accomplishments, not their bank statement."
Actually you make the same, there is a perception of making more per hour if you work less hours, but in the long run, if you are on salary, it's the same!
Success I think is measured by how happy you are in life with your life!
I was making $100K and left to make $46K to start teaching so I could spend time with my new son when he was born; I loved the teaching so much I 'm still doing it, for a fraction of the $$$$ but I'm happier then ever in this business.
I'm in a 7:30AM out at 1:00PM!!!!!
Life is good!
Thank God!!

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 09:34 am: Edit

"I have never had luck with fresh from school employees. American culinary schools should do nothing but teach the basic physics of food and food safety, and let the students develop the real skills from the chefs they will work for."

Ah Men Brother.
And who cares about "how" you make the money, as long as its moral and legal.
Whats the profits on the fast food chain rest's these days?...70,000.?.....to maybe 125,000 per year? Or am I too high ball.
Lets say its just 50,000 per year.
Sign me up.
lets see, kids college, cars all around, another girlfriend, vacation, new roof for manny, some money for the Priest.
That green paper you have in your pockets, will not tell you, you are some sort of culinary failure if you own a burger king.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:08 am: Edit

Are you kidding me Spike????
70K-125K a year????...if I had the bucks to buy a McD or BK these days I would!!!
They cost about 3-8 million depending on the location, and the profit is at least 800K for an average one to several mill
Why do you think all the owners own several and the big groups own hundreds!

By Chefgibz0 (Chefgibz0) on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 02:09 pm: Edit

When I was a young buck....I worked in a BK for a spell......they had "levels" that they set, that by there number crunching they could anticipate what level business was going to be at what time of the day, and what level of labor to have. Peak level was said to generate $2,000 dollar hours. The location I worked at frequently had $2,000 hours.....most lunches had a few of those hours in a row. Pretty impessive consdering your core labor is at min. wage. I do not know what their yearly numbers were....they had to be good, and we were not even the busiest branch in the region. Not related to BK, but another franchise. A very smart (and now rich) guy bought the rights to put a Krispy Kreme in Buffalo. Cost him $3mill just for the rights, not including the facilities. When he opened he had a 3 hour wait for dounuts. the local police had to direct traffic it was so bad. Needless to say, he paid off the bill to the rights in 3 months. Building was paid of the next month...........

By Chefspike (Chefspike) on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 11:20 pm: Edit

Hey manny, I didn't know.
I don't eat at those places only but 3 maybe 4 times a year.
If I want a burger, I go to Fat Burger, around the corner and down the street.
I take the dog and we both pig out and watch the action on the street.
If I want a subway sandwich I go to Subway, thats improved a lot and it's at the end of the street.
Is krispy crap still in biz? I thought they were belly up.

By Chefmanny (Chefmanny) on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:50 am: Edit

I don't eat there much either, but I read the math!